Unmasking The Truth: How A Late Neurodiversity Diagnosis Changed Everything
- Andy Goram
- 2 days ago
- 35 min read
What if the reason someone’s struggled at work for years wasn’t down to laziness, poor performance or lack of care… but because they’d been navigating life with an undiagnosed neurodivergent brain?
In Episode 126 of Sticky From The Inside, I sit down with Chris Hood, Head of Coaching and Community at Neurobridge, to explore the emotional reality of receiving a late diagnosis of ADHD—and the internal unraveling that often follows.
This isn’t just a conversation about diagnosis. It’s about identity, grief, shame, and rediscovery. And just as importantly, it’s a call to action for every leader, manager and organisation to rethink how they support neurodivergent individuals—especially those who’ve spent years masking in plain sight.
Diagnosis Isn’t the End—It’s the Beginning
Chris shares that when he finally received his ADHD diagnosis in 2022, he expected relief—and he got it. But it didn’t last long.
Instead, he describes what followed as a kind of emotional avalanche:
Grief over missed opportunities
Shame for not having figured it out sooner
Anger at a system that didn’t recognise the signs
And confusion about who he really was underneath the mask he’d been wearing his whole life
The diagnosis wasn’t a neat solution. It was the first piece of a much bigger jigsaw puzzle.
The High Cost of Masking
Throughout the episode, Chris speaks candidly about the masking behaviours he developed as a child to feel safe, accepted, and “normal.” That meant mimicking the people around him, hiding sensitivities, and suppressing the very traits that made him neurodivergent.
As he puts it:
“You don’t even realise you’ve been ashamed of yourself your entire life… until the mask starts to come off.”
The cost? A fractured sense of identity, disconnection from personal values and preferences, and a lingering internalised belief that he was somehow broken.
“What Do You Need?” Isn’t Always the Right Question
One of the most powerful moments in the episode comes when Chris explains why the typical managerial response to a diagnosis—“So what do you need from us?”—can backfire.
Why? Because many people don’t know. They’ve never been allowed to ask that question of themselves before. They’ve spent years surviving, not thriving.
Instead, Chris suggests that true support starts with:
Curiosity, not compliance
Small changes, not sweeping fixes
Creating a culture of safety, not just a box-ticking policy
It’s about meeting people where they are, not where you assume they should be.
From Survival to Support: What Neurobridge Is Doing Differently
Chris’s organisation, Neurobridge, is tackling these challenges head-on through the world’s first Neuro-Inclusion Support System (NIS)—a digital platform offering open-access education, tools, and community for anyone navigating neurodiversity in the workplace.
Importantly, the system doesn’t require a formal diagnosis or disclosure to access support—because, as Chris reminds us, many people are stuck on waiting lists for years or don’t feel psychologically safe enough to disclose at all.
It’s a platform designed for everyone—from neurodivergent individuals to curious colleagues, HR teams, and leadership.
Leadership That Supports, Not Silences
If you’re a leader managing a team today, this episode is your reminder that neurodivergence isn’t rare—it’s under-acknowledged.
And the question isn’t whether you’re leading neurodivergent people.It’s whether you’re doing it well.
As Chris puts it:
“We're a neurodiverse species. No two minds are alike. It’s time the workplace caught up with that.”
Final Thoughts
This episode isn’t about fixing people. It’s about seeing them clearly, supporting them properly, and helping them feel safe enough to be themselves—possibly for the first time in their working lives.
Chris’s journey is both personal and universal, and his insights are essential listening for anyone committed to building a workplace that works for everyone.
🎧 You can listen to the full episode via the player below, or scroll down to read the full transcript.
Full Transcript
[Andy Goram] (0:10 - 3:51)
Hello and welcome to Sticky from the Inside, the employee engagement podcast that looks at how to build stickier, competition smashing, consistently successful organisations from the inside out. I'm your host Andy Goram and I'm on a mission to help more businesses turn the lights on behind the eyes of their employees, light the fires within them and create tons more success for everyone. This podcast is for all those who believe that's something worth going after and would like a little help and guidance in achieving that.
Each episode we dive into the topics that can help create what I call stickier businesses. The sort of businesses where people thrive and love to work and where more customers stay with you and recommend you to others because they love what you do and why you do it. So if you want to take the tricky out of being sticky, listen on.
What if ‘poor performance’ is actually undiagnosed neurodivergence?
Okay then, what if the reason someone struggled at work for years wasn't down to poor application, effort or attitude but because they'd been navigating the world with an undiagnosed neurodivergent brain. For many adults discovering they're autistic, have ADHD, dyslexia or another form of neurodivergence later in life can be a double-edged sword. It can bring understanding and relief but it can also unlock a flood of questions and a whole bunch of self-doubt.
Like how did I not see this before? How much easier could things have been if I'd known about this? And was I ever actually difficult or have I always been just different?
This isn't a medical diagnosis in the traditional sense, it's a reframing of how someone's brain works and importantly always has. And when that realization comes late it can shake the foundations of a person's self-work, their work identity and their career story or it can be the unlocking of their latent superpowers. But I think it also reveals a deeper issue.
Our workplaces are still built around assumptions of normal and for neurodivergent individuals, especially those who spent years masking to survive a work, those environments can do some real harm. And in today's episode I'm joined by the fabulous Chris Hood from NNeurobridge and I know Chris is a passionate advocate for neuro-inclusion and I'm hoping he's going to help us unpack what this kind of late diagnosis really feels like and how we can properly support people going through these things. I genuinely think this one's going to be quite a powerful listen.
So do stick with us. Chris, welcome to the show, my friend. Love listening to you again, Andy.
Yeah, great to see you too, my friend. Uh, loved having a chat with you on in, I think it was engaged for success radio some, some time ago. Yeah.
I thought this is something I need to dig into a bit more. I've got two kids with neurodivergence. I got nieces and nephews with neurodivergence.
I'm absolutely positive. I got something going on with me that was never diagnosed, but this, you know, whatever. Um, this is fascinating topic, I think, especially for today's workplace.
But before we start gambling on and getting into all of that, bud, tell me a little bit about you and what you do over at nNeurobridge.
Meet Chris Hood: From ADHD diagnosis to championing neuro-inclusion
[Chris Hood] (3:52 - 4:36)
So I'm Chris Hood. I am head of coaching and community over at nNeurobridge. So I'm leading the coaching team and I take the lead with a lot of the projects that we've got going on within our online platform, the bridge.
So I've helped create a large number of the courses that we've got available, helped to design and publish a lot of the guides and resources. And yeah, I'm really there to help deliver a powerful experience for all of our users, whether they're neurodivergent, a team member or neurotypical and a manager, it's, it's about helping everyone kind of get on the same page. Cause you know, it's a really normal part of who we are always has been, we just didn't know before, but we're getting there now.
So yeah, it's a, it's a really, really exciting area to be working in.
[Andy Goram] (4:36 - 4:44)
And, um, specifically at nNeurobridge, what, what are you trying to do? My friend, what's the work all about?
[Chris Hood] (4:45 - 5:23)
In the simplest terms, we're trying to help people like us who are still without the support that they need. In broader, more corporate terms, I suppose you'd say where we're redesigning the modern professional landscape so that all types of minds are fully embraced, fully supported, fully included. People don't need to hide such large parts of themselves.
And we can actually all benefit from the beauty that diversity of thought actually brings, as opposed to just seeing it for the challenges. We want to help people understand that this is a real opportunity that we can start to harness.
[Andy Goram] (5:24 - 5:38)
Yeah, I think that's really important. I'm sure we'll come out in today's conversation. And I mentioned in the intro that you're a very passionate advocate for this.
Where's all that stem from mate? Where's that, where's that drive, that real energy come from for this topic?
[Chris Hood] (5:39 - 6:46)
I've always known that I wanted to do something that revolved around helping people. And originally I really didn't get on well with school, but felt like I had to keep pushing to try and get the good grid. So I went down the route of A levels in biology and sports science, and then I realised I didn't want to be a PE teacher.
So what else can I do? And I went into physiotherapy. And yes, working in healthcare was incredibly difficult.
And in retrospect, and I'll know that that was because I had undiagnosed ADHD at the time, but I received my ADHD diagnosis in 2022. I started medication later in that year. And I'd been posting about that journey online and saw the reception that got and the way people were benefiting from it.
And, you know, we'll be talking a lot about guilt, grief, shame, all of those very tricky topics today. And it was realising how much of that could be avoided for other people. You know, I've always said, I just want to leave the world in a bit of a better place than I found it.
And if this is one area that I can do that in, then that's good for me. I love that.
[Andy Goram] (6:46 - 7:19)
Nice, nice stuff. And I know when we talked about before, um, off, off air, you, you, you were talking about the, the medical support. And when you finally got onto medication to help with the ADHD, I think you said something like the fog had kind of been lifted.
Can you just explain to the listeners what, what that transition has been like for you, what it felt like before with your ADHD. And as a result of the correct medication, what that's, what that feels like and what that's done for you.
What ADHD really feels like — and how diagnosis lifts the fog
[Chris Hood] (7:21 - 8:34)
I like finding out that you've needed glasses your whole life. And then suddenly you put them on and it's, it's a, it's a bittersweet moment because I can finally sift through my thoughts a little bit easier, but then the does come, is this how easy things feel for everyone else? You know, it got rid of all of this, this mental tug of war that I was always at with myself.
I just want to go and have a shower. Why is that such a difficult thing in my mind? And why is my body feeling frozen because of it?
And, and then all of a sudden you've got this increased fuel reserve and you realize that, Oh, I can actually choose what I want to go do and I can go and do it. And yeah, it's, it's, it's a very strange transition to, to realize that the way your brain works isn't what everyone else is experiencing. You know, the, the radio chat with a playlist and a movie that's running through your favorite scenes every time.
And it's, it's a difficult thing to comprehend that other people don't have that level of internal distraction going on constantly. And there's not that much effort associated with, with doing something with it.
[Andy Goram] (8:34 - 9:30)
This is why it's fascinating, my friend, because it goes the other way too. Um, you know, somebody who doesn't suffer from that has absolutely no idea what's going through your head and why. Seemingly the simplest request to get you to focus on something or do something is, is, is full of anxiety and turmoil.
Um, so it definitely cuts both ways, which is why I really think this conversation is an important conversation because, um, as well as you can go through life, maybe feeling that something's not right, but not knowing, uh, and you've talked about your, your diagnosis, the other people can go through life thinking, well, the wrong things about why this person is perhaps different, but don't even know if they recognize it as being different, just difficult and really hard to work with or work shy or, you know, all those kinds of things, the assumptions that we make because we don't understand.
[Chris Hood] (9:32 - 11:15)
I think that's, that's something that we do see a lot of in the work that we do is people just don't have the level of understanding or awareness that this isn't a choice, that this person struggles with that. And it's not a choice that they communicate in that way. Like it's, it's a variation of the human mind and the human brain.
And that isn't something that they have much of a locus of control over. There's, there's, there's aspects that absolutely we can improve on things, but there's the certain parts of the way that we operate that are hardwired genetically. You know, this isn't something that we've picked up.
It's not a result of poor parenting or lack of discipline, screen time, like everyone tries to say, it's, it's part of who we are and the difficulty arises through that, that lack of understanding. And I think the, the ignorance associated with that as well, but we, we didn't know, you know, and I think that's a difficult thing because people can rightfully be angry after the diagnosis because why didn't I get the help that I needed? But, you know, you go back even just 15 years ago, we knew so much less than we do now.
Yeah. So every, everyone was in a state where they just didn't understand. And we have been pushed towards a more, a more singular way of thinking, communicating, working, socializing, and we started to treat that as the, the peak or the norm, the thing we should all strive for.
But we're starting to transition away now where people are realizing that, like you were saying, different doesn't necessarily mean difficult. And I think that's when you've got that understanding and you know how to meet someone where they are.
[Andy Goram] (11:15 - 12:35)
Yeah. I think, I think that's really important. I'm also, uh, I guess cheered to hear that somebody who's working right in the middle of it is using words like we're getting there and that people are beginning to sort of wake up to some of this stuff because, um, it seems to me certainly in some of the forums that I end up working or rooms that I end up sort of facilitating the, there is definitely a greater awareness, particularly with individuals coming up to me at the start of a session and sort of saying, by the way, Andy, just so you know, I've got ADHD and if I'm sitting there twiddling with something or fidgeting or blog, it's not that I'm not engaged.
It's just what happens. And I, I'm always really kind of, um, torn at that point. I'm torn that the person feels that they have to come and say that to me because, you know, someone sort of saying, by the way, Andy, I'm not engaged today.
I'm just sitting here staring at the window cause I couldn't be asked. I mean, no one's going to say that to me. So I just sort of feel slightly conflicted that someone, bless them, has to come and sort of say it, but it's also great for me because it just gives me a signal that, okay, I've got to deal with this person in a slightly different way.
So it's, it's, it's useful, but I, I, there's a tinge of regret that someone needs to sort of say that.
[Chris Hood] (12:35 - 13:42)
Yeah. Yeah. Nah, I know where you're coming from.
It's almost as if I wish they didn't feel the need to say this. Yeah, absolutely. That, that, that, that is born from in some ways, negative past experiences where they were made to feel wrong for being different and wrong for having different needs, like needing to fidget with something, which I'm doing right now.
And this is where that shame starts to develop in people. And it's almost like they're, they're prefacing their existence when they're in social settings. And it's like, I'm just giving you a heads up.
I'm different. And some of that comes from shame. But again, as I say, things are changing.
I think some of it is actually, I don't know if I'd say pride necessarily, but I think it's the, it's the loosening of those shameful shackles that people have been wearing, where they're, they're, they're feeling a little bit more at ease saying, this is the case. And, and they're not saying, I'm sorry, I'm going to be fidgeting. They're just saying, just so you're aware.
Just so you know. It's, it's, it's a nuanced area. You know, there's going to be a whole host of stuff that contributes to someone doing that, but.
[Andy Goram] (13:43 - 14:40)
Absolutely. And, and I guess the symptoms or the manifestations of, of all of this new divergence are multitude because, you know, people who are autistic do not all behave in the same way. They do not have all the same emotional responses.
Um, I know that from my nieces, they're twins and they are very different in, in, in how it affects them. I, I want to pick up on a couple of things that you've already started to talk about, because I'd love to understand that kind of emotional journey when you get your diagnosis, because you have used already some powerful words like shame and grief and regret. You know, these are, these aren't sort of fly by night words.
These are deeply emotional words. So I, are you able to kind of like share what you think that emotional journey is like from somebody who has, comparatively speaking, had a late diagnosis, right. Of neurodivergence.
Can you do that for us, mate?
The grief and shame of late diagnosis: “I didn’t know who I was”
[Chris Hood] (14:41 - 15:59)
Yeah. It's a, it's a very strange one, but there was things I wasn't expecting that came up. So immediately after my diagnosis, so thanks very much, doctor.
See you next week. Hang up floods of tears, but they were, they were truly tears of relief and validation. And I finally got this objective answer for why I've been struggling.
And it's like a weight did feel lifted almost immediately that, so I wasn't wrong when I felt different. I wasn't wrong when I felt like I needed more help. Like this has always been true.
What I wasn't expecting was how short lived that feeling was. It was probably no more than a week, I'd say. And then as you, as you sit with it, you start to digest it more, you then start reflecting and it was the grief that I really wasn't prepared for.
It's, it's, it's strange to grieve something that never was, you know, you're looking back on your life and you're grieving the opportunities that you may have missed out on the, the friendships that fell apart, the relationships that were strained, the difficulties at home that you might've had, and you grieving the fact that those things didn't have to happen, but they did.
[Andy Goram] (16:00 - 16:29)
That's so interesting, mate, because again, from the outside, you would think, well, that's it. Brilliant. Uh, you now got the answers.
Everything can kind of move forward from there. It should, you should be in your happy place, right? It's so fascinating.
Not surprising that you then get this flood of, oh my God, how much have I missed out on, or where have I had real trouble where I perhaps didn't need to have had trouble and that's just another hidden part of this, right?
[Chris Hood] (16:30 - 18:54)
The diagnosis, it really is the tip of the iceberg. Like that wasn't, that wasn't the end of this journey for me. That, that was realizing that there was a jigsaw puzzle ahead of me, you know, like I've had all these pieces mismatched and then I finally had one corner finished and it's like, okay, we can, we can actually start putting this thing together now, but it's, it's the years following and I say years, it can, it can take a very long time for people to get to a place where they aren't really carrying that emotional burden, that grief. I don't know if it's something that would ever go away completely, especially if you were diagnosed much later than I was like, like, as you said, it was relatively late for me, but still far younger than the average female in terms of actually receiving a diagnosis.
So the longer you go, there's more and more memories and experiences and emotions and pain have been compounded over that time. And there's so much for people to unpack and it's a very strange place to find yourself in because you start to wonder who you are. You know, you realize that you've built up this mask over the years and all these things that you've been overcompensating for and hiding from people just to try keep up appearances of being a functioning human, a good student, a good child, trying, trying to do your best.
You're essentially living for everyone else. And then you start to realize, I don't know who I am. I don't know what I like.
I don't know what I want from life. Cause I've been at the whim of that shame and that guilt that I've been feeling my whole life. That's the thing that's really been driving me along is just trying to keep that out of my field of vision, but it's there now.
And as you peel all these layers back, it's, it's who's underneath all of it. And that is a very difficult place to find yourself in, but it is a really powerful opportunity for people to discover who they were before the world started telling them who they should be and how they should live and what they, what they should be doing with their life. They can, they can really start to reinvent themselves in that sense and come back to who they were before all of that.
And that is a really beautiful thing to go through as well. And I'm fortunate enough to have had sufficient support to actually get to that place. You know, a lot of people, they, they really are going on their own and it isn't smooth sailing, you know.
[Andy Goram] (18:54 - 19:20)
I'm sure. And I want, I want to dig into this masking thing a little bit later on, because I think that's a really fascinating piece, but I also want to pick up on something I've just nodded and said, Oh yeah. And you mentioned the sort of average diagnosis time of a female.
So are you saying that later in life, it's the females who are getting diagnosed later, they have, it's caught much later than in males. And why is that?
[Chris Hood] (19:21 - 21:29)
So this is primarily in reference to things like ADHD and autism. They still are only just really getting to grips with just how varied it presents in people and how different it can look and how it isn't that stereotype that we've been shown over the years. The majority of research that was done some years back, it was done on young white boys.
So that's why the image that we've got of ADHD is this really hyperactive class clown type. It isn't the perfectionist that tends to daydream quite a lot and struggles getting started with things. It isn't the person that seemingly loses place in conversations all the time because they're supposed to be like this.
So over the course of the last sort of 30, 40 years, we've seen so many people that were missed because they didn't fit the stereotypical mold of what that condition looks like. So for women, I think the average age of an ADHD diagnosis is 34, 35 years old. Really?
But I've spoken to people that are much older than that. Yes. I was told about a lady that was 78 years old when she received an ADHD diagnosis.
Wow. It's insane to think, you know, that's. A solid lifetime.
That's a long innings to not know this thing about yourself. And of course it is, it is subjective in terms of how your life has panned out. So I don't think it's as simple as saying the later you're diagnosed, the harder it is to deal with it all necessarily, because I think it's the support that you've got in place.
It's your current circumstances. But if you think logically, like I said, there's, there's years and years more of that internalized guilt, shame, ableism, the difficulties being burnt out and trying to hide it. Like that really does a number on your nervous system.
And when, when we're not machines, you know, we can't carry that stuff on forever and things do eventually start to give, we, we start to develop eating disorders, mental health disorders. That's, that's when we start to kind of fall apart from the inside out because we're holding so much in and we don't have the tools to be able to do so.
[Andy Goram] (21:30 - 22:42)
There's more and more, uh, it's worse to me, at least it feels there's more and more research coming out now around that impact on the nervous system and what that sort of controls in our, when in our, in our lives, I don't know, it sounds ridiculous. It's the central nervous system. It's pretty major, but a lot of these things are having a real damaging impact on that.
And then, then that, those things, I guess, trigger things like fear, anxiety, uh, confusion, all, all these things all stemming from the nervous system. So it's, it's all linked. And so when you talk about feelings like shame, that's, that's a difficult thing to sort of like dig into because the causes of shame could be myriad for so many people.
From your perspective, what were the sort of, what were the drivers of that shame? Was it the sort of realizing that you had felt different and maybe hadn't done anything about it or felt powerless to do something about it? Was it, I don't know, instances that you saw bits of behavior that people had misread?
I try and help us understand where that, that range of emotion really comes from, what it feels like.
Where shame begins: Abandoning yourself to fit in
[Chris Hood] (22:43 - 26:26)
It's, it's very difficult to put a pin on when it begins. But I remember being very young and having this constant awareness that there was something different about me and people did pick up on it. It's, I know it can be a bit airy-fairy and say things like the vibes were off, but like you got that, you got that sense, even as a young child, that there's something different about me and people find me a little bit odd or a bit strange and they maybe don't want to be around me as much.
And for me, I was very different to my two older brothers. They were, they were more kind of manually inclined. So they've both gone on to do trades like my dad did.
I was a bit more of a bookworm. I'd prefer to be outside drawing and reading really late at night, all of this kind of stuff. But then because I wasn't able to do the things they did in the same way, that was something I really internalized because, well, I should be able to do that, shouldn't I?
That's what's expected of me, but I'm finding it really difficult. And I'm more sensitive than they are as well. And that doesn't seem acceptable, which as a man, you know, we do get taught that there's not really many emotions that you're allowed to show.
You know, it's either happiness or you're working hard and you're quiet, but anything outside of that, you got to keep it hidden and numb it. So it's something that begins so early and it really shapes how you see yourself. And I think that's what so much of the weight was for me when I did get diagnosed is realizing how much I unconsciously abandoned myself throughout the course of my life to feel less ashamed.
So I would listen to music that other people did, even if it wasn't on my radar. But maybe that'll help me fit in and I'll try to talk to them about this because that seems to be a popular topic and I'll behave in this way because people are more accepting of me when I do that and I'll speak like this. And it's realizing that so much of what I thought was my personality was actually me just appeasing people so that I felt a little bit less alone.
And you don't realize until you do start going on this diagnosis journey that you've really quietly been ashamed of yourself your entire life. So there's not been that sense of loving yourself and developing any sense of self-esteem or thinking you're capable like I did very well in school and still felt stupid. Even though I was known as, in a humorous way, the smart one in my family, I still thought I was stupid because it's left-handed, you can't use a screwdriver properly.
So you really couldn't get away from it. There was always something that I should be able to do this better. I should be finding X, Y and Z easier.
I should be at this point in my life by now and I'm not. That was a real driving force for me the entire time and that's something I'm still working on even now. We're coming up on a good three years post-diagnosis and I'm still learning things about myself and unpicking these really unconscious patterns that I've had as part of my daily life for as long as I know.
But it is making way for something beautiful and healed and happy and healthy and it's a worthy trade-off. I'm happy to have gone through those incredibly low points post-diagnosis because I think I was making space for how my life is now and the role that I'm playing in my own life now. I'm not allowing the world to dictate it now because it's my life and I'm the one that has to live it.
I'm the one that's in my head all day, every day. So I need to make it a good place to live.
[Andy Goram] (26:27 - 27:48)
Well, listen, Matey, thank you so much for sharing that. I think that's a fantastic insight into what it really, really feels like. You can't help but to listen to your story.
And again, this is a conflicted emotion. I feel quite sad about somebody going through that. And we've got people at work going through this sort of stuff every day, unknown.
But in this case, we're talking about getting a late diagnosis and seeing it. And so not trying to leapfrog over the process, but this thing that you mentioned before about post-diagnosis, and like you've just explained, all this learnt behaviour must be incredibly difficult to then drop. So you've still got this masking behaviour that's been going on, maybe intentionally, but unfounded previously, as in, I don't know why I feel different.
I just do, but I now got to fit in. So I'm masking to a point when you go, okay, so that's what's been going on. Okay, right.
So now I can be me, but you've learnt a different you. What's the process like of, I guess, trying to unpick all that learnt behaviour for the first time, perhaps in goodness knows how long, feeling like you can be yourself?
Unmasking isn’t instant — it’s a journey back to yourself
[Chris Hood] (27:49 - 30:09)
Well, this was the most difficult part of it. Because people encourage you to unmask, be authentic, be yourself, express the real you. I didn't know who he was.
So a lot of it was actually, as opposed to thinking, how do I now present this new version of me to the world? It's how do I figure out who the real me actually is? How do I start to figure out what it is that I want from life?
What it is that I like to do? What it is that I don't like to do? How do the people in my life actually impact me?
And is that something I've just been putting up with because I felt like I had to? Is the people I want to engage more with that I maybe wasn't letting myself before? So really, for me, it was more about going inward and getting to know myself underneath all of that masking, that armour, that self-protection.
And it was realising, okay, so I've always been different. People found that difficult, doesn't mean I was. Where can I really start off now?
And for me, that was seemingly simple stuff that's actually made a huge difference. It was, okay, well, I've realised I really don't like being in a busy workplace in person. So I've been working from home recently.
So that's something that I really want to keep in my life. And then obviously working at NNeurobridge, I'm fully remote and that's brilliant for me. And then it was, I'm always fidgeting with things.
And because people would tell me off for messing with pens and such, instead, I would be scratching my skin. I'd be twirling the beard hair and kind of making a mess of myself, you know, because I was just so irritable. So now it's, I'm going to bring a fidget toy with me if I go anywhere.
And I get quite overwhelmed in noisy spaces. So I'll start wearing some earplugs when I go out and just turn the noise down a little bit. And it wasn't so much about how I can present in the world.
It was how can I make myself feel more comfortable in it? And then as I start exploring that and figuring out where I want to go, I can do it from a place where I feel a bit more secure in myself. And I'm looking after myself before thinking about the rest of the world and the people in it.
Not in a selfish way, but in a way where I want to feel good when I'm out and I want to feel good about what I'm doing. So in order to do that, I need to start thinking of my own needs for once.
[Andy Goram] (30:09 - 30:25)
Is there a sense of relief and empowerment that comes on the back of this stuff now? So you feel like you are beginning to be able to sort of drop that learnt mask and fully start to be you.
[Chris Hood] (30:26 - 32:12)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that that's really what the last few years have been about. It's been creating who I am now, coming back to who I was, like I was saying before.
It was making space for myself in my own life. So there is an immense sense of relief that I've gotten to that point. Relief for the people that have helped me to do so and a lot of gratitude that I actually had the opportunity to do so.
Because if I hadn't had that diagnosis, I was in a very, very bad spot mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and it really did save my life. You know, I was on an absolute crash course. I did not see any light in that tunnel and it changed all of that.
So there's an immense sense of gratitude with it. And I still have my moments where I look back and think, oh God, I wish that hadn't happened or why couldn't they just do this for me? And you know, you do have to make peace with the past and forgive yourself, forgive other people.
It doesn't mean you have to forget. That doesn't mean you have to rekindle relationships with people that are continually harming you, but anger serves a purpose when you let yourself feel it and then let yourself move past it. And there was a lot of anger.
There was a lot of sadness and in some ways, depression. You know, I hit a real low point afterwards and that was necessary so that I could really sit with all of these feelings I'd never been allowed to express and I made space to be able to do that. And that did, I think, pave the way and kind of opened the gate for me to walk through and actually start carving that new path.
And it's been an amazing thing overall.
[Andy Goram] (32:12 - 33:33)
Which is fantastic. And now you're in the sort of inside trying to help out in the work that you're doing at Neurobridge. So I think, you know, if we just take our conversation today, I'm hoping it goes such a long way for people helping to understand.
Just one example about what could and is going on in the years of some people at work. But in the work that you're doing, how are you trying to, I guess, help two audiences really? Because there are the neurodivergent individuals themselves going through the journeys that you've beautifully described today.
But there's also the kind of work colleagues, in my head, because of the focus of this podcast, particularly the kind of managers and leaders of people who maybe are dealing with shame and regret, thinking of how they've ended up managing or treating somebody that they now know has a diagnosis. And they've got to mend that relationship. They've got to readdress how they've managed that person.
How's that whole support piece working, Chris? What are some of the, I don't know, some of the conversations, some of the tools, some of the training that you're seeing have real effect out there now to sort of help both parties, I guess, get to grips with some of this stuff?
What real neurodiversity support looks like (and why legal compliance isn’t enough)
[Chris Hood] (33:33 - 34:10)
So the way that we've gone about it is we've created the world's first NIS. So that's a neuroinclusion support system, which is a tech platform. It's called The Bridge.
And that essentially acts as a centralized neurodiversity support hub that an organization gains access to. The biggest barrier to people receiving support at work is that a lot of organizations say you have to have received a formal diagnosis and you have to have disclosed so that it's all on the books and we know we're being legally compliant, X, Y, Z. On the NHS, an ADHD diagnosis can take up to 10 years.
[Andy Goram] (34:10 - 34:20)
I was going to say that the pathway for my own kids has been long and we went early, right? But it's madness, absolute madness.
[Chris Hood] (34:20 - 34:34)
And then also only one in four people actually feel psychologically safe enough to disclose at work because there's been a lot of negative prior experiences, they see negative stereotyping and discrimination and bias.
[Andy Goram] (34:35 - 34:44)
Well, they say it's an excuse. I've heard it, you're just making excuses for bad behavior, like, come on, we're not still living there, surely.
[Chris Hood] (34:44 - 37:23)
So the reason we've set our system up in the way that we have is that it does not matter if you are formally diagnosed or not, it doesn't matter if you're just there to start exploring your own mind or trying to understand your niece or nephew that's just received a diagnosis, it's open access so that there isn't that barrier to actually receiving the support that you need. And we've taken a really encompassing approach to that support. So within our system, there is learning spaces about a ton of different neurotypes, there's manager-focused training, there's universal education about the way that the mind works and the importance of health and well-being.
And there's a HR space, a recruitment space, an acquisition space, we've really taken an encompassing approach because the way we see it, it needs to cover the boardroom to the break room for this to really work. Because neurodiversity is essentially the foundation of humans, you know, it is the only form of diversity that doesn't discriminate, it doesn't matter how old you are, what your sexual orientation is, where you were born, we are a neurodiverse species, not two minds are alike. So it needs to have that encompassing approach because it isn't just about the 20% that do have significant differences, this is about all of us.
And that's where we need to be going with this, you know, it needs to become the norm because it always has been. And just because we've spent the last couple of hundred years trying to silo people with rigid schedules and this is how you leave and this is how you do this and you've got to follow X, Y, Z processes, it's not working for a lot of people. And when we do start getting it right, everybody benefits from it, you know, from the fact that people become more productive, all the way through to the fact that they feel happier at work, they become more loyal, they start to grow, they start to thrive.
And myself, our CEO, both late diagnosed neurodivergent people were prime examples of what happens when people allow themselves to do things in the way they need to do. Because you're facing less resistance, there's no friction in your life. And of course, that's not a simple A to B thing.
There's a lot of learning to be done, there's hills that we need to climb together. We do need to help some people get on board and really understand this from a new perspective. But as I said before, we are really getting there and things are really changing.
And even if some organisations are mainly getting involved at the time being because of legal implications, at least it means they're starting to take those steps and they're getting going. And any step that we can start taking is a good one and they all add up.
[Andy Goram] (37:24 - 38:09)
I think it is taking the first sort of steps, right? Making an effort and listening and trying to move forward. If you were, I mean, again, it seems in my head, it feels like a daft question because of the range that people experience.
But let's put ourselves in the situation of a manager of a team and one of the team members has had a late diagnosis and they're an established person in that team and there's work to be done now to sort of re-establish relationships and working practices. In terms of sort of first steps, if you think about the tools and support that you're advocating for, what sort of things should people be thinking about? What sort of approaches do you see really working in the workplace?
“What support do you need?” is the wrong question — here’s what to ask instead
[Chris Hood] (38:10 - 39:53)
I suppose the best way to answer that is to say what doesn't tend to work first. Okay. Because what happens a lot of the time is that a person receives a diagnosis and then they mention it at work if they feel comfortable doing so.
They say they might need some support and then they're expected to have all the answers. Ah, yes. But much like myself, you've spent your entire life just molding yourself to the way everyone else wants you to do things.
You got to a point where it wasn't working. You started exploring, you looked into the diagnosis and then you find this thing out. That's only the start of that journey.
As I said before, it's the tip of the iceberg. So a lot of people don't know what support they need because they've never allowed themselves to ask that question. They've never felt like they had the space to ask that question.
How can I be helped? How can you help me? We've never known a life like that.
So really, it's getting to grips with the ways in which people are struggling. You know, it's being really curious about what they're finding difficult. Not as a person that's received a diagnosis, just as another human being.
You know, I find it really difficult working in the office because there's a lot of foot traffic. Okay, well, maybe we can look into things like remote working options. Maybe we can try to design a bit of a quieter workspace that's intentionally low traffic and it isn't rocket science.
You know, it takes a bit of time. And yes, there is some science behind it that some people may need to know. But on the surface, we all have our own individual ways of doing things at our best.
We all have individual strengths, challenges and support needs. And it really is about meeting people where they're at and just being compassionate about it. And instead of thinking they're making excuses, like you said before, they're not.
They need help. And there's very simple, easy ways to do that.
[Andy Goram] (39:53 - 40:54)
I think this, you know, what a surprise. It all comes back to utilizing and developing those human skills. We talk about a lot on this, on this podcast, not taking them for granted.
I think the most fascinating thing you just sort of said for me personally is the, the clear, obvious statement that we perhaps just miss out is that they're not, you're going to, you're going to say, well, what do you need from me? Now you've got your diagnosis. How do I know?
I've got no idea what I need at that point. I'm just figuring it out myself. What I would like you to do maybe is just talk to me and listen to me and maybe help me think things through and see what seems you can help me just as much by observing what you see change when things happen.
I think that's just a fascinating, that's a whole blinking another episode to get into in all of that, because you can just take it for granted that you've got a piece of paper. You've now got all the answers. Give me the roadmap to helping you out.
And it's like, mate, that's not there. Fascinating.
[Chris Hood] (40:54 - 41:32)
People just aren't in that position, you know? And like you said, they don't know what it is that they need. They don't really feel like they know themselves at that point.
So how are they going to know what they need? All they know is that they're struggling. They're worried, they're stressed, they're overwhelmed, probably burnt out in a lot of ways.
They're navigating huge rollercoaster rides of emotions. And that isn't something that they're going to be able to give a straight answer for in a lot of cases. So it really is about collaborating and starting small, thinking what's one small change we could make to make it a bit easier and we'll go from there.
[Andy Goram] (41:33 - 42:20)
Yeah. I mean, it sounds so obvious when you say it, Chris, but I'm sure I'm not the only idiot in the room who just doesn't necessarily initially think of these things. But I think that's been hugely insightful.
I feel like a bit of a Wally, to be honest, because I'm going to try and summarize this show with the sticky notes part of the show. And I'm like, well, where do we go here? How do we summarize what we've talked about today?
That's madness. But we'll have a go. If you were to give people three really simple bits of advice on maybe getting into that supporting somebody who's got a late neurodivergent diagnosis.
If you were to pick out three actions that you think would be really helpful, what would you say they would be?
Chris’s 3 tips for supporting late-diagnosed team members
[Chris Hood] (42:21 - 44:09)
The first one is to start conversations with the team. You know, not necessarily an individual if they happen to have disclosed, but just start to normalize this subject. You know, start talking about the ways in which we all work differently.
What's working for you all in the meeting? What's not? Maybe that's something that you do through an anonymous survey, but just start getting conversations, go and give people a platform to actually air their thoughts, feelings, and opinions and approach that with curiosity, compassion.
It's not about problem solving. It's about helping people to feel at their best. So approach it in that way.
And then I would say, try to identify just one small change you could make to the workplace that is going to help reduce some common barriers. You know, whether that's a bit of an environmental adaptation, or it's just a small tweet to make something a little bit more flexible so people can have some more autonomy in the way that they do things. Just a small change to get them going.
And then one that's a bit of a wider scale would be to actually start actively challenging when you see discrimination, bias, negative stereotyping, you know, saying people, I'm so OCD, just because you like a tidy desk, it does not equate to the challenges people face, you know? And I think that's something that managers especially can have a really positive impact with. You know, the way they approach their team, their workplace, the people within it, the way that they lead themselves and communicate and behave, that really does have a trickle down effect.
And I think that can massively transform the culture that people are operating within. So when their manager is willing to ask questions, willing to learn, and also willing to stand up for people that have been marginalized for a long time, that massively changes the tide for all of this.
[Andy Goram] (44:10 - 44:21)
Yeah, that allyship's really, really important, mate, for sure. Chris, before I let you go, where can people find out a bit more about you and Neurobridge? Where should they head for?
What should they look for?
[Chris Hood] (44:22 - 44:45)
So I'd get people to go straight to nNeurobridge.co.uk. You know, you'll be able to find links to everything else there, but just as a one-stop shop, if you head to their website, you'll learn a lot about why we do what we do and how we actually go about doing it as well. And there's a ton of free resources you can download on there as well, just to start some of those conversations and help you in actually getting the wheels turning a little bit.
[Andy Goram] (44:45 - 44:51)
And it's for both audiences, right? So people going through or having a diagnosis or people dealing with people who have had a diagnosis, right?
[Chris Hood] (44:52 - 44:52)
Absolutely.
[Andy Goram] (44:52 - 45:19)
Brilliant. Chris, I was really looking forward to talking to you, but I can't thank you enough for sharing what has been an incredibly personal and emotional episode, sharing your journey. It's given me personally some huge insight that I had perhaps not thought about.
I only hope it does a fraction of the same for anybody listening. You're an absolute superstar, mate. Thank you so much for coming on.
[Chris Hood] (45:20 - 45:37)
It's been a real pleasure coming on. And yeah, the way I see it, I am masked by becoming authentic and I don't feel ashamed of that journey anymore, you know? And I'm making peace with that.
And if it means that people feel inspired to do the same and they start being a little bit kinder to themselves, then it's worth it.
[Andy Goram] (45:37 - 46:24)
Cracking. What a great way to finish. Thanks.
Thanks a lot, mate. You take care. All right.
Yeah. Enjoy the rest of your day. I'll see you soon.
Okay, everybody. That was Chris Hood from Neurobridge. And if you'd like to find out a bit more about him or any of the topics we've talked about today, please check out the show notes.
So that concludes today's episode. I hope you've enjoyed it, found it interesting and heard something maybe that will help you become a stickier, more successful business from the inside going forward. If you have, please like, comment and subscribe.
It really helps. I'm Andy Goram and you've been listening to the Sticky from the Inside podcast. Until next time, thanks for listening.
Andy Goram is the owner of Bizjuicer, an employee engagement and workplace culture consultancy that's on a mission to help people have more fulfilling work lives. He's also the host of the Sticky From The Inside Podcast, which talks to experts on these topics from around the world.
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