How An Engineer Cracked The Anxiety Code

Daniel Packard & Andy Goram discuss how to completely free yourself from anxiety in just 6 weeks!

Traditional methods for tackling anxiety and fear usually rely heavily on mental approaches—therapy, mindset shifts, mindfulness. But Daniel Packard believes these only scratch the surface.

In Episode 120 of Sticky From The Inside, Daniel introduces a radical idea: anxiety isn't primarily mental, it's physical. Daniel, the "Internal Engineer," spent over eight years applying mechanical engineering principles to human anxiety, uncovering that anxiety originates from a malfunctioning nervous system, not your mind.

Why haven't we solved anxiety despite countless efforts? Daniel argues it's because we've been focused on symptom management rather than root-cause solutions. He and his team, discovered the nervous system is central to our feelings of safety and fear. Without proper care, it malfunctions, creating feelings if fear, anxiety, procrastination, people-pleasing and self-doubt. Or as Danile calls them, "The Funky Five."

Through rigorous research and real-world applications, Daniel developed a body-based method to recalibrate the nervous system. His program promises—and delivers—permanent anxiety relief within approximately six weeks. As an early skeptic turned advocate, I experienced firsthand a profound shift in how I perceive and manage anxiety.

In this in-depth conversation, Daniel explains his four key discoveries:

1. Fear is the underlying root cause of anxiety.

2. Fear originates in the body, not the mind.

3. The nervous system, when malfunctioning, generates chronic fear.

4. A systematic recalibration of the nervous system permanently solves anxiety.

Daniel’s data-backed method has transformed the lives of business leaders, teams, and even families, enabling individuals to access their full potential free from the limitations of anxiety.

But don't just take my word for it.

Are you ready to experience this transformative approach yourself? There's a link to take his free, 90 minutes, introductory training session in the Show Notes of the episode. What have you got to lose? Oh yeah, the constant feelings of fear and anxiety!

You can listen to the full episode in the player below, or read along with the automated transcript.

Full Transcript

[Andy Goram] (0:10 - 3:35)

Hello and welcome to Sticky from the Inside, the employee engagement podcast that looks at how to build stickier, competition smashing, consistently successful organisations from the inside out. I'm your host Andy Goram and I'm on a mission to help more businesses turn the lights on behind the eyes of their employees, light the fires within them and create tonnes more success for everyone. This podcast is for all those who believe that's something worth going after and would like a little help and guidance in achieving that.

Each episode we dive into the topics that can help create what I call stickier businesses, the sort of businesses where people thrive and love to work and where more customers stay with you and recommend you to others because they love what you do and why you do it. So if you want to take the tricky out of being sticky, listen on. Okay then, this is I think going to be a very different episode as we continue our quest to have more fulfilling work lives and if I'm honest it's making me a little anxious and that's pretty apt considering what we're going to be discussing today.

Why Traditional Approaches to Anxiety Fail

Anxiety, fear, procrastination, people-pleasing, lack of self-confidence or as my guest today would call it the funky five. These are things, feelings that at some time in our lives most of us will have experienced either at work or in our personal lives or most likely both. Typically the normal Western way of treating these feelings is that we try to manage them through mental strategies, through some kind of therapy, practicing mindfulness or resilience training but what if we've been looking at it all wrong and what if these feelings aren't just something we have to cope with but things we can actually solve.

My guest today is Daniel Packard also known to me as the internal engineer and he has spent in excess of eight years and over a million dollars in research and development looking at these issues from a unique engineering perspective. Now this viewpoint has led him to create an innovative body-based approach aimed at actually solving and releasing people from these feelings. Now he boldly claims and has plenty of evidence all over the internet to back it up that his method doesn't just manage anxiety, fear, procrastination, lack of self-confidence, the need to people-please, it can permanently remove them in around six weeks.

Intrigued? Well I certainly was. So much so that Daniel convinced me to experience a 90-minute sample of his training.

It was thought-provoking, illuminating and honestly it has left me thinking differently and with even more questions. So today we're going to be diving deep into these questions, hearing about Daniel's groundbreaking discoveries and exploring how solving these things is possible and can really transform our work and lives. Daniel welcome to the show my friend.

[Daniel Packard] (3:36 - 3:58)

Thank you so much for having me it's an honour to be here on the Sticky from the Inside podcast which I love the name both its business implications but also when I saw it I thought it would make a really good album for a heavy metal band you know like Motley Crue's you know 1991 Sticky from the Inside I don't know what do you think?

[Andy Goram] (3:58 - 4:06)

I think there's a jam in there somewhere my friend I'm up for that. Maybe at the end of this we just hang on a little bit later knock a tune or two out that'd be amazing.

[Daniel Packard] (4:06 - 7:18)

That would be great and thank you for the intro I want to be clear you know your audience are professionals and business owners and leaders and their time is valuable and I'm not naive I know that they are dating other podcasts I know this is not the only podcast they're listening to so I and their time is valuable so I want to share with your audiences real quickly what we're going to be talking about that would be justify their time because their time is very valuable and that is a few things one is we're not just going to be talking about anxiety and fear which we will be but really what we in my company call the funky five which is anxiety, procrastination, people pleasing, perfectionism, and low confidence and low confidence can be fear, doubt, worry, caring what people think of you and what we do that's really unique is that we help people that are struggling in two areas not just the funky five meaning anxiety, procrastination, people pleasing, perfectionism, and low confidence but they know what the issue is meaning they're aware of the problem what they don't have is a how a very simple systematic how to be free of what they're struggling with they know the what they're really aware of the what they don't have is a simple how and I'm going to be sharing with them how do you be free of all this and the second piece is again your audience already knows the what and they probably already have tools that help manage the symptoms or gain awareness or make it not as bad but what I'm going to be sharing with your audience is the breakthroughs that we made in a perceptual framework that make it possible so that you are free of the funky five in a matter of weeks that's what we're bringing to people and this is valuable not only to business owners and leaders who just know that they would be more productive and operate and lead from a higher level if they didn't have the fear the procrastination the people pleasing caring what people think of you but also because what we do is an online system it makes it very scalable for organizations we're working with google and Nike because managers went through our program went oh my god you have a system that's results focused and it's scalable and so that's the power that this can be brought into organizations and then thirdly it's for parents who have children that are struggling with anxiety and low confidence and you can see that the therapists and psychologists aren't solving it and it's heartbreaking so if you're a parent uh that has a child that is in pain and you're feeling powerless this can also help so the reason I bring this up is your podcast is about impact and there's different ways that you can make impact with yourself to be happier and more productive happier and that you can bring this to your company to make it more efficient and sticky and then third is to impact your children in a profound way and so that's what we're going to be sharing all that not just the what but the how to so you can move from managing the funky five to being free of it how does that sound for a value-packed episode?

[Andy Goram] (7:18 - 7:36)

that's jam-packed mate and that's how we like to roll around here so that that is bang on message I'm really looking forward to it but I would also love to hear and I'd love you to share a little bit of your journey because you come from a very different perspective and I wonder if you'd be kind enough just to share the background that you've had and how you've got to this point of getting to where you've got to

Daniel Packard’s Journey: From Mechanical Engineer to Anxiety Innovator

[Daniel Packard] (7:36 - 13:43)

Yeah I'd be happy to partly because you know I think it's important that people know where this basically it's a inner technology that we develop but also when you tell people oh we have a system where you can be free of what you've had your entire life in a matter of weeks people are understandably skeptical so I think when they understand where these innovations come from it makes more sense so the the passion of my company which is full liberation technology is results we care about results when when we work with people we measure results we track results as we developed our systems it was all about getting results and as business owners you know results matter but results normally doesn't matter in the personal development spirituality space the result and the reason results matter so much to me is because when I was growing up my dad was a physicist and you know he sat me down when I was about 10 and he said you know anybody can have a theory uh but you never know who to trust you don't ever you never know whose theory is accurate it's the person that gets results that's the person that you want to listen to and that's the person that you can trust and he what he said was results matter which was a pretty heavy thing to lay on a 10 year old but it stuck with me this idea that results results matter and I he encouraged me to be an inventor he had a workshop that he would let me go and make things and I loved making things figuring out problems and making things to get results it's very satisfying when you solve the puzzle and you get something that gets results so then I went to engineering school to be professionally trained on how to see a problem break it down into smaller mechanical pieces build a prototype and then design refine and develop something that gets results and it's a certain mindset it's a certain skill set and I was good at getting results now the good news was that engineering school taught me how to make machines work but they did not teach me how to make life work so I could make a robot that could play ping pong but I was anxious insecure um perfectionism people-pleasing uh self-doubt you name it I had it and like a lot of your audience I was aware of the problem but I went and I went looking for help and I went to therapists and psychologists and gurus and coaches and retreats and I was I was probably in a cult or two I was definitely in a cult at one point and uh you know I I spent 10 years and a million sorry I spent a hundred thousand dollars on myself and 10 years and at the end of that 10 years and 100 grand I just sort of went I'm still doing this shit Andy I'm still insecure I'm still anxious I'm still people please I'm still I'm still there and I could feel there was this version of me that was there I had occasional access to it but it wasn't consistent I felt stuck but also I had tried so many things and spent so much money I was like I guess this is as good as it it's gonna be and it was sad and also I was kind of angry and I remember one time I sort of looked up at the sky and just got mad at whoever's up there I was like hey this is what the f I said I spent the last 10 years and 100 grand trying to improve myself and I'm still here like what do you want from me I know this is a test but I'm trying to pass the test and I'm not what do you what do you want from me and I was being rhetorically angry I didn't really expect a response but I got this sort of voice that said what my dad told me at 10 which was results matter and I had this sort of sad epiphany that the entire what I call the improvement industrial complex personal development spirituality coaching therapy psychology it doesn't get great results people do it forever they never fully solve anything and nobody even tracks results or cares about results and I said I'm in a lot of pain and the world's in a lot of pain and there's no innovation in this industry it's the same regurgitated stuff that's been around forever and I knew I was good at problem-solving and innovating and getting making things that get results so I started my research company for full liberation technology with the mission to see could we reverse engineer an understanding of human struggle and a system that made it simple to address the root cause quickly and permanently so people could be free of it now I didn't know it was possible I just mean I knew engineers are good at problem solving and somebody had to at least try so we we went at it um and it was way harder than we thought it was not clear but that's the beauty of engineers and inventors we are tenacious problem solvers so it took eight years over a million dollars in research and development we worked with thousands of people all over the world and eventually we figured out a couple key simple innovations that make it possible to be free of the funky five and um I know a lot of people say is that even possible and it's it's what I live every day because I've used the tools longer than anybody I was an anxious insecure procrastination people pleaser perfectionist and now I wake up every morning and I'm just calm it's my my default it's just calm and peaceful and I I mean this on a cellular level I do not care what anybody thinks of me I can't which feels weird to say and what that opens you up and me up to is to really be the person you want to be to really make an impact to be consistently joyful and energized and be the leader that you want to be and it's not because I'm enlightened it's not because I'm special it's because I'm an engineer and we figured out how to solve this quickly and permanently and then what I want to share with your audience is how they can live that consistent calm and full potential

[Andy Goram] (13:43 - 14:20)

Which is which it just sounds it sounds like a nirvana um you know as a for for many people and in my past I've had uh definite periods of anxiety I have a daughter who suffers tremendously with anxiety um and to sort of sit here and be discussing oh yeah we can we've found a way to sort of free ourselves from that is remarkable um because much of it has been about coping it with with these things getting getting by and and you're trying to sort of bring something else I wonder whether...

[Daniel Packard] (14:20 - 15:44)

I want to interrupt it you said something very true but sad yeah I said that we can be free of this and you're saying that sounds remarkable and it sounds remarkable because in this trillion dollar industry that's struggling with a t every year not one time every year people are spending this money it sounds remarkable and it shouldn't be it shouldn't be remarkable if you have a broken bone and you go to the doctor they put a cast on because they know what a broken bone is you know what a broken bone is a bone that should be in one piece is in two pieces it's really simple then you put a cast on the bone and the bone heals and the bone goes from two pieces to spoiler alert one piece and you're off and running and it's six to eight weeks nobody says wow I used to have a broken leg but now I don't isn't that remarkable there's so many things that we know how to solve but human suffering and pain we don't and it's sad that all these experts have had so long and they haven't figured out a way to be free of it and it's sad that it's remarkable it really is and that's why I started my company because I don't want it to be remarkable I want this to just be the way things are when you break a bone six to eight weeks it's fixed if you have anxiety six to eight weeks it's fixed that's what the world needs so I had to interrupt because it is remarkable and I really wish it wasn't .

Solving Anxiety: The Engineering Approach

[Andy Goram] (15:44 - 15:57)

Well I thank you for interrupting. I think what I would really like to understand is the journey of discovery that you went on right through this bit and and and whether and at what point did you as an engineer realize hey this is solvable not just manageable

[Daniel Packard] (15:57 - 18:07)

We didn't well until we had the data yeah we were working with people until we had the data about four years in that we were not only getting people free of the symptoms but it was permanent and we had a 90 success rate that's what we were most proud of we didn't want it to work occasionally we thought if this is simple and basic it should work for everybody when you put a cast on a cast on someone's bone it works for everybody it's incredible it works for everyone so until we saw the data we didn't know that we had cracked it uh and it's it's important the data and the results is what matter and and I'm going to answer your question how we got there but also at the end of this podcast I'm going to send your audience to my website to download the same train that you got where they're going to apply one of the innovative tools that we developed so that they can experience this firsthand and get a result that they can trust because right now I can tell you how we got there and some insights but the result is what matters and I want your audience to have a result that they can feel so at the end go to my website gamepire.com get this 90 minute training that Andy got apply one of the tools it's completely free and feel for yourself so that you know that this works because again my dad told me results matter so the first clue that we could pull it off was when we realized how ridiculously far off the experts were so the first thing we did is we approached this as engineers and that's a specific approach and what we first noticed was the entire industry the improvement industrial complex incredibly complicated if you're struggling with anxiety procrastination people pleasing low confidence sabotage stutting whatever you call it you go out into this world and there's all these experts and this and that is it this is it my ego is it my trauma is it my past is it society is it my hormones is it my gender should I do an ice bucket challenge or should I walk on fire should I visualize this should I do that is it simple or is the journey of change complicated. Andy let me ask you.

[Andy Goram] (18:07 - 18:21)

Well we make it complicated ultimately there is a million different solutions to these things but are they really solutions I I don't know.

[Daniel Packard] (18:21 - 21:10)

Well that adds to the confusion. But even we make it confusing because for me I went out I was like okay what do I do and there was all these experts and all these things and they had all different angles to come at none of them solved anything and it was just very confusing so the engineer in me says if you really understand something you can make it simple the einstein had equals mc squared he took something incredibly complicated made it simple newton looked at all of motion on the planet got it down to three laws it's impressive so we said I think there's let's go look for a more a simple understanding because there's not one and maybe there is one so the first thing we looked at was what's the approach that people are being taught and is it is it getting results so the first thing we did was to simplify okay so what does that mean what we saw first was and this is a big insight it feels like and we're taught that we have multiple problems right I have procrastination I am a perfectionist I struggle with low self-esteem I have anxiety I'm an anxious person I we're told and it feels like there's multiple problems but in reality you do not have multiple problems what you have is multiple symptoms of one thing which is fear let me say that again you do not have multiple problems you have multiple symptoms of one thing which is fear what that means is you could say you're anxious but really you could just say you have fear and that high level of fear you call anxiety you could call it procrastination or you could say that you have a fear of starting and finishing things you could say you're a perfectionist or you could say you have a fear of making a mistake you could say I'm a people pleaser or you could say you're afraid people won't like you so you put them first and yourself last and you could say well I have uh self-doubt or I'm insecure or you could say you have a fear of being your natural true authentic self so can you see that on some level what we're all struggling with is different symptoms of fear does that at least make logical sense absolutely absolutely it does and can you see that it's problematic that if you're being sent to the symptom level you're never going to solve it because you're always just working on the symptom does that make sense yep absolutely and so the reason I bring it up is because people say well I've had procrastination my whole life you can't possibly get rid of my procrastination you know I've gone to coaches and therapists and they could I was like yeah because they sent you to the symptom level you never stood a chance but does it make sense that if you address the root cause that you actually could be free of the symptoms that makes sense?

[Andy Goram] (21:10 - 21:21)

Absolutely this is the question I had in my head about if this research or data existed why didn't why haven't other people thought about it in this way previously I mean that's fascinating to me.

[Daniel Packard] (21:22 - 23:26)

They're not motivated. First of all every most of the trillion dollar improvement industrial complex is just regurgitating old concepts there's value in them you know mindset meditation working on yourself goal setting working on your past it all has value but it's all regurgitated information meditation's been around for thousands of years you know therapy's been around you know about 110 years and people are just regurgitating why because it's easy you learn something either through your experience or from another teacher or a book or a school and you go out and you share this thing that's already out there and you charge money for it what we did to innovate from scratch was hard it was really really difficult but also we were innovators we wanted to innovate the average coach therapist guru they are not innovators most of the world isn't innovators they regurgitate because that's easier but also they're not incentivized to solve we've gone with our model to large personal development companies that claim to want to help people and told them we have a solution they are not interested because the money is in the management the band-aids the repeat yeah I know people that make millions and would not make millions if they could solve what we do not only is it six weeks you're in you're out but also we don't charge people at the beginning we only charge our clients at the end when they have clear measurable data that what they have is gone and not coming back who does that yeah nobody of the million coaches and therapists on the planet we're the only personal development company that lets you pay at the end when you have measurable results and we track results as you go through the program nobody else does that why because they can't because they're not innovators and they're not incentivized why I don't know but I just know that that's why you want engineers because we're innovators.

[Andy Goram] (23:26 - 23:36)

It's the anti-subscription model it's what it is ultimately.

The Power of Results-Focused Anxiety Solutions

[Daniel Packard] (23:36 - 28:02)

Yeah it is. And we make way less money the money is in the management but the satisfaction is in the solution every week. This happened just a month ago, I had a gentleman from Vancouver, an architect his name was Will, procrastinator, business owner and he was an anxious people pleaser and he procrastinated so it affected his sales. It affected his productivity. He was not the leader he wanted to be. He was not making the money that he wanted to be and people were leaving his company. Because he knew he was anxious and he wasn't fun to be around and he said, “Look man I've spent more than you've spent on myself and this stuff isn't going anywhere.” And he said, “I was at a conference and I met somebody that did your system and said that you only charge at the end you get results.” He said, “That’s impossible.” Not in six weeks. No way, but no risk to try. So he went through our program and around week four, this is the value of having a system in innovation, his productivity went from I think it was he could focus 10 minutes in a row at the beginning of the program and that went up to 90 minutes in a row. His overall productivity in what he wanted to be doing went from I think it was about 45 minutes a day up to four hours a day, but also his energy levels went up by 40. His joy levels went up so he had more fun at work which made everybody else happier, he was a better father, he was a better husband. But also other people in the company then did the program so the entire company got happier, more productive, and more efficient and more joyful. And why? Because we wanted to innovate that's the power of innovation in terms of making people's lives better.

Now I want to explain to you the innovations that we made kind of the perceptual framework that make this even possible because your audience is listening you thinking like this sounds great like how? Okay so first things first you don't have problems you have symptoms of one thing which is fear. So then we said “All right well people already know fear is an issue.” But most people just have fear management tools right? You can meditate, you can exercise, you can visualize and lower the fear, but we said, “that's inefficient we want the fear gone. So we looked at the usual model and the approach to fear which is getting bad results. Meaning people aren't free of it. Anxiety is on the rise especially with our teens and the primary approach to fear is that it's a problem of the mind, you know. You change your mindset, change your scarcity thinking, stop the negative thoughts in your head, cognitive behavioural therapy is cognition in the mind. Mindfulness, mind meditations quiets the mind it's mind mind mind mind mind mind. Now the mind is part of it. The mind can say some negative scary things that can create fear, but what we saw is that the mind is not the cause of the fear. The mind again, is a symptom of where fear is actually originating which is not the mind, but the body. Let me say that again, fear does not originate in the mind, fear originates in the body and then spreads to the mind.

It's not theory this is how humans are wired where our body feels things and then sends signals to the mind. And the mind is like a little computer which gets the body what it needs. You feel hunger in the body first then the mind senses that hunger and then figures out how to get food. If you're out in the jungle and you hear a sound in the bushes, you'll feel fear in the body first. Your mind senses the fear and then kicks in and tries to solve the problem. So it's body first mind second not the other way around. So for reasons which I'll explain in a bit everybody's body is cranking out too much fear, then the mind senses that fear in the body and thinks there's a problem and then starts going, “Oh my god there's a problem. Your money, your finances, you suck, your father was right. Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! And then I'll get you stuck into a feedback loop which we call the spin cycle. But if we want to look at the root cause fear actually originates in the body and you know that because if you say “I'm anxious.” Do you say, “I think anxious or I feel anxious?”

[Andy Goram] (28:02 - 28:04)

It's feel.

[Daniel Packard] (28:04 - 28:13)

Yeah it's feelings and you feel it in your chest, your heart, your throat ,your stomach. Listen to those words – chest, heart, throat, stomach. Does that sound like the mind to you or the body?

[Andy Goram] (28:13 - 28:15)

Nope all body, all body.

[Daniel Packard] (28:15 - 30:13)

Now when I say it you think huh it makes a lot of sense it does make sense because it's true. The problem is the experts sent you and charged you a lot of money just sent you to the literal wrong location. I don't know why they weren't paying attention. They make more money that way. But this is why you haven't been able to solve any of this. This is why you can't get your mind to quiet down. So I'm sharing this information with you to show you why it's possible that if we go to the right location we're going to get better results. But also so that you can have compassion for yourself and realize why your mind won't shut up. It's because the mind is a symptom of the body and if you can realize, if we go to the right place, you could be free of this. It can give you hope.

I had a woman who came to us. This is like six months crippling anxiety and her mind wouldn't shut the hell up and it was torturing her and she's like “It's my mind. It's my mind. My mind is so negative.” You know, “My dad did this one…” Mind, mind, mind, mind. And she goes “And I and I can't get my mind to quiet and I should be able to. And my guru said I need to kill the ego.” And I said “You can't because it's a symptom of where it's actually coming from, which is the body.” And she said “If you could get my body to quiet down and my mind to quiet down I would have such a better life.” So about four weeks in she sends me this message and she said, “Oh my god!” I said, “What?” She said, “You're right it's in the body and not only am I feeling calmer because I know where to focus, but also I have hope that for the first time in my life I can actually be free of this stuff.” Why not because we have magic or witchcraft or we went to Hogwarts but because we just went to the right location and the right location is that the root cause of fear is not the mind but where Andy it's in the body my friend in the body and I'll explain where in the body and why you're feeling this fear. But again you went through that 90 minute training I did and you kind of experienced this more deeply and can you just share from your experience did you see that yes in fact the fear is coming from the body and was there value in that insight?

[Andy Goram] (30:13 - 30:20)

100% and it was gut it was pretty much 100 for the particular thing that I was investigating 100% gut.

[Daniel Packard] (30:20 - 30:30)

Yeah and while that's a simple insight is that what's being taught?

[Andy Goram] (30:30 - 31:06)

No but it's not even what I thought previously because I was just wrestling with my head and thinking it was all in my head and so you know me going through the experience my first mind blow was you just said oh it's common sense this is the thing that's bothering me is yes it is but I haven't thought about that before why haven't I not tuned into what the body is telling me and I'm no scientist I'm no guru in any of this sort of stuff I'm not even an expert in many things but it just I felt daft thinking about it like that makes so much sense you know that's where it is

Mind vs. Body: Where Does Anxiety Truly Originate?

[Daniel Packard] (31:06 - 33:46)

well um I understand it's so simple when people see how simple this is they'll say like why the hell didn't I figure this out sooner? Why didn't the experts tell us it's because they weren't looking for a solution. But also history has shown that there are simple solutions sitting right under our noses it takes someone to go looking for that simple solution. You know in the mid 1800s more soldiers were dying in recovery than on the battlefield from infection and everybody just accepted that that was part of it. But Florence Nightingale, that British nurse, looked and said this is a problem, we got to solve this. And she went to the generals and the doctors and said this is a problem more soldiers are dying in recovery. And they just basically said like “That's just part of war.” But she didn't, she couldn't accept that she paid attention and she discovered that the simple cause of the infection was bad hygiene. And if we just change the bandages, open the windows and move the soldiers away from the toilets, the death rate dropped by 90 percent. By something simple sitting right under everybody's nose. So there's historical precedents that the simple thing gets missed because people are just in their old paradigms and they're not looking for a simple solution.

So it's not because you're daft, it's because there's a trillion dollar industry that tells you it's in the mind but it's not. And that's why people are struggling unnecessarily and it breaks my heart. So I hope 30 years from now, just like changing bandages and moving people away from toilets that have open wounds is common sense, I hope addressing our problems in the body is common sense. I wish this, I wish your mind wasn't blown by this simple effing thing but it is. We're trying to get this program into schools and getting it to kids at a young age so that we can get them healthy and calm and confident at a young age so they don't spend decades trying to quiet their mind. When if you quiet the body, the mind goes with it. I have a very very very quiet mind. It's like a scene from Bambi before the Mom gets murdered in my mind, but it used to be just constant attacks. Remember the grumpy judges from The Muppets? Those like mean judges that I had the grumpy judges from The Muppets on Meth in my head from age 15 to 40. And when I applied our tools to my body, the body calmed down and my mind went quiet. And it's just it's beautiful and there's little butterflies, and my mind even says nice things to me. I'm getting older, I'm losing my hair. I'm not making this up, this morning I looked in the mirror and I was like “I'd do me!” It's wonderful not only do you quiet the negative thoughts you have positive thoughts so....

[Andy Goram] (33:46 - 33:51)

I'm still reeling over Stadler and Waldorf on Meth! I mean that's an image I'm not going to get away from for the rest of the day, my friend.

[Daniel Packard] (33:51 - 35:26)

Now I want to explain another piece of what we discovered that makes this possible and again simple the key to what we've discovered is it's simple and the tools that we developed are simple easy to apply and easy to stick with because when you have something simple and easy to do that addresses the root cause as you can imagine you get much better results. When people say how do you have a 90 success rate and how can you charge at the end when people get results, because we have something simple mechanical that addresses the root cause and is easy to do and stick with. And when you get that combination you get great results.

So how is this possible? Well once we realized it was coming from the body we then said well we’ve got to figure out where on the body, and ideally a way that's simple and mechanical versus theoretical and abstract. Mechanical understandings are really great when you understand something mechanically versus abstract. If you're choking and a coach walks up to you and says “Oh I think you have a real scarcity mindset around air.” Uh I think you're really focusing on your lack of air instead of the abundance that of air and it seems like your ego is very attached to breathing, so if you could just kill the ego and be in your heart. Or somebody walks up and says “Hey here's the issue. You have a mechanical obstruction of your windpipe and I'm going to add mechanical pressure to your stomach, which puts air pressure behind the blockage and will pop it out, so that air can get into your lungs, which would you rather have an approach that's uh spiritual uh perceptual or mechanical?

[Andy Goram] (35:26 - 35:32)

I'll take the mechanical please Daniel. ("Why?") Because it's going to get results mate, it's going to avoid it's going to clear the blockage immediately.

[Daniel Packard] (35:32 - 36:00)

Immediately and reliably and it's simple now you at the end of the 90 minute training the one that I want I'm going to give to your audience there's a technique that we have you apply it's one of our techniques was the technique simple and easy to apply uh yep absolutely and when you applied it did you feel a measurable drop in either fear or anxiety in your body?

[Andy Goram] (36:00 - 36:06)

Yep from the score I apportioned at the start of the experiments to the final piece yes there was a there was a marked drop.

[Daniel Packard] (36:06 - 36:18)

And can you see based in what you experienced that if somebody else did the same technique can you see that they would also get...

[Andy Goram] (36:18 - 36:38)

I can only imagine that they... I can only imagine that they that they would okay and I was dealing with something that I didn't think was major and I still experienced uh a marked drop so I would imagine if you're dealing with something like crazy powerful then you're gonna see a benefit.

[Daniel Packard] (36:38 - 39:05)

Yeah some people that go through the training that I'm gonna send your audience give your audience uh it's profound what they're able to feel in five minutes because again we're going to the root cause and it works I had a woman who just uh from that one technique she said I have tried meditation I've done yoga I've done therapy I've done breath work for 20 years she said I have not felt a level of calm like that ever and that was from one five minute technique some people that experience a lot of anxiety feel that big drop but some people like yourself that might not have high anxiety but can feel anxiety there's still a drop but the point is not how much of a drop the point is when you apply this simple tool to the body do you feel measurably calmer and the answer is yes because that's a result so how do we pull this off and how do we make something simple and repeatable in everybody because we're going to the body and the body everybody has the same body everybody has a skeleton everybody has lungs everybody has a heart it's all the same and the beauty of the body is it's systems the skeleton is a system the heart is a system your teeth are a system your eyes are a system and the thing about systems is we know that systems can malfunction and cause problems and systems can be repaired so we just said well let's find the system in the body that's creating the fear if there's a system systems can be repaired and they have mechanics of systems so once we ask that smart intelligent question because we're trying to find a solution the answer was really really really simple so simple that you kind of already know what it is and almost feels like common sense okay so let's take out the word fear let's take out the word anxiety and let's swap in the word nervous okay and let's just say the whole planet is experiencing different symptoms of nervousness a lot of nervousness will call anxiety medium nervousness will call self-doubt and worry meet other nervousness is creating rise to the procrastination the people pleasing the perfectionism and low com but let's just let's use the word nervous okay all right to you Andy and your audience that loves simplicity pop quiz if you had to guess what system in the body is most likely malfunctioning and making people nervous do you think it's the a epidermal system b the capillary system or c the nervous system what system do you think is making people nervous?

[Andy Goram] (39:06 - 39:39)

I really appreciate the clues um I'm gonna go for the nervous system ("And why are you gonna go for the nervous system Andy?") Because that's the link right, that's the link between nerves, feeling nervous, the nervous system, the generation of nerves, the feelings in the body where the nervous system hangs out in the body what it does or it all links. ("Is it is that a complicated reasoning or a simple reasoning?"). I think I made it more complicated than it needed to be but yes it's simple.

Recalibrating the Nervous System for Permanent Anxiety Relief

[Daniel Packard] (39:39 - 41:23)

It's simple we're feeling nervous there's a bot system in the body literally called the nervous system which you'd think would be the first place people would look but where do the experts go the mind no you're not paying attention we have an entire planet of nervous people and there's a system in the body called nervous system and you send people to the mind and after a hundred years of horrible results you're still sending people to the mind wake up it was sitting right there literally under everybody's nose the nervous system okay if the nervous system is running correctly if it's properly taken care of you experience a feeling that all people want to feel which is to feel safe your nervous system is your body's natural threat response system if it is healthy you feel safe if you feel safe you don't have fear if you don't have fear you don't have anxiety procrastination pleasing perfectionism and low confidence if however you don't know how to take care of your nervous system which nobody is eventually it starts to malfunction and you feel unsafe when you feel unsafe it gives rise to fear and that fear then gives rise to anxiety procrastination people pleasing perfectionism and low confidence so can you see the mechanical linkage that what were your experience that you don't have problems what you have is symptoms of the nervous system which is malfunctioning making you feel unsafe which is creating fear and then creating these symptoms does that make logical sense?

[Andy Goram] (41:23 - 42:07)

It does make logical sense, it does make logical sense. It's the feeling of what are... the question of why are we feeling nervous that takes you straight up to the brain again and the mind rather than thinking about what's mechanically going on ("repeat the question"). Well it's not a question it's just a feeling I have is that this this thing about going to the mind instead of the body you know when you think about why are we feeling nervous because it's a why question where do we do all the consideration? We do the consideration up in up in the mind so we're bypassing the problem again going straight to thinking about it rather than going to root cause like you're saying. That's the that's the that's the weird logic that I ended up going through on this thing just getting it straight in my head.

[Daniel Packard] (42:07 - 45:41)

Again it's not weird when you understand how humans are wired. Two things again you were told the problem was the mind if a whole bunch of experts that have letters at the end of their name and they're giving ted talks and they're looking smart and they all are telling you it's mind it's understandable you're gonna think it's a mind problem it also looks like it's the mind because the mind is saying horrible scary things and then you're feeling horrible and scared and unless you spend eight years of research and testing to go against that and have a certain disposition to innovate and problem solving which not everybody does it's understandable to think it's the mind but also unconsciously we want to believe it's the mind because we like that oh if I can just figure this out we love that the western oh we can just figure it out I'll just figure it out oh but also we like that it's the mind because then we can avoid what we love to avoid which is feeling so unconsciously we sort of like the whole mind angle it doesn't work yeah but humans don't like to feel so we sort of secretly kind of like the mind idea because if we could solve all these problems that feeling wouldn't that be nice so our program does require you to feel but you have to feel for six weeks and then you get to be free for the rest of your life so that's a pretty good roi but the the the value of this is I want to understand this information that I'm sharing with your audience if you just take the information it's useless you can't take anything I'm sharing and use it and the reason I bring this up is because there's so many podcasts where experts go on and they share information but it's not really helpful it won't really make your life better it just adds to your misery and you just know more about your misery and I don't want to add to that so this information I'm being clear it it can't help you in and of itself what it is is going to give you a perceptual framework and understanding that being free of this is at least possible why because it's a systems issue does it make sense that there's a system in the body called the nervous system that's making everybody nervous and does it make sense that if you don't take care of a system it can malfunction and be out of whack does that make sense yeah of course it does okay now the reason that it's out of whack is because we were never taught to take care of it if you don't take care of all the systems in the body they all malfunction if you don't get enough sleep don't brush your teeth don't eat correctly don't get enough sleep systems in the body don't drink enough water will start to malfunction so does it make sense that we were never taught to take daily care of our nervous system and now it's malfunctioning does that make sense yeah of course it does yeah okay now here's why that insight and that approach is so revolutionary if all these problems that we have anxiety procrastination people-pleasing perfectionism low confidence feeling stuck all of it is symptoms of this fear and that fear is a symptom of just little acts of not taking care of something each day bad news is you're always going to have it if you don't learn to take care of your nervous system it's always going to be out of whack you're always going to feel unsafe and you're always going to have these symptoms that's the bad news but if we want a simple solvable solution to address the root cause why is it good news that the whole problem is caused by little acts of care that have gone missing why is that actually good news?

[Andy Goram] (45:42 - 45:48)

Well I'm assuming it's because you can find a system to care for that system there's a way of caring for that system there's a way of making it better.

The Simple System for Lasting Anxiety Freedom

[Daniel Packard] (45:48 - 46:50)

Yes but the way to care for it is really simple if the problem is just that we didn't take care of something like if you have gained weight it's not a mystery it's not your childhood it's not false fat appearing real it's not a fatty mindset you neglected your diet every day and those little acts of neglecting your diet accumulated to create the excess fat but if you want to lose fat is that simple and easy to do. No no if you want to lose the fat is it easy and simple to do well you've got to exercise you've got to have the will to do it it's gonna take some work right but it's totally doable yeah if the reason you gain the weight is because you ate more calories than you burned then you can burn the fat by just being healthier going from unhealth to health your body burns the fat and the fat goes away it's simple it's doable. Make sense?

[Andy Goram] (46:51 - 46:56)

Yeah and you're saying the same thing for the nervous system?

[Daniel Packard] (46:56 - 47:53)

100% it's just another system in the body we don't know how to take care of it so it's malfunctioning but if you go from little acts of uncare to little acts of care the system heals itself and the fear goes away that is the power of this insight at the six-week program that we teach you gives you all the tools and you need multiple tools working together the simple easy to follow instructions of what to do on what day and what order such that if you follow the steps you get the result which is that your nervous system just comes back to help when it comes back to help you your default is to feel safe from the inside out so if you had a simple easy to apply system that brought your nervous system back to health such that you just felt safe to you Andy and your audience how would your life be better in all areas if you woke up every morning and your whole system your default was you just felt safe from the inside out how would life be better? How would you be a better person, better leader, better business owner. How would your life be better?

[Andy Goram] (47:53 - 48:17)

Listen I would get on with a lot more stuff than not than whittling about it I would be definitely more proactive I would like to think in that all of those actions I would be happier and more successful and better to be around and uh that's enough on its own but I bet there'll be a ton more.

[Daniel Packard] (48:17 - 49:40)

There is a ton more. People come to us because it's all one root cause people usually come to us for one thing they'll say I'm really struggling with anxiety or I have a lot of procrastination this happened two years ago this gentleman came crippling perfectionism uh so he couldn't he had all these books he wanted to write he couldn't he couldn't finish it because he was a perfectionist so four weeks into our program he had already written a first draft for a book that he'd been trying to write for years but then his energy levels he was much happier he was much more authentic his marriage improved and his kids were calmer because they were watching what he was his entire life he also quit drink I mean the whole thing and because we don't charge extra when you get what we charge you for one thing but you get multiple benefits but also you're just free when you don't have all this deep fear you're free to be authentic to fulfil your potential to do what you really love you make way more money with way less work and if you're a business owner people want to be around you because you're happier and you're a more loving generous caring boss it just makes all areas of your life better we're not meant to operate with this low level and high level fear running all the time so we help people with these symptoms but really what we're giving people is permanent easy access to their full potential in all areas of their lives can I get an amen Andy?

[Andy Goram] (49:40 - 50:19)

Amen, brother. I mean this is what this is what's really fascinating about your system and I I had a a small taste of it and it has definitely changed the way I think about stuff and the way I feel about stuff uh already so and listen you don't take my word for it there are you only have to look you up on the internet and there are loads and loads of testimonials of people saying hey this is not a thing this is a thing this is happening this is real and so I think it's fantastic you're able to come on the show and share this with people today and we're going to put this link in the show notes so people can go through the same thing I did and make up their own mind.

[Daniel Packard] (50:19 - 51:17)

Yeah I that's what I want. Again I know people are sceptical I know they've tried a lot of things they're over promised and under delivered so um I want them to experience this for them first for themselves firsthand so they can feel and get a result so again this information that I've shared with Andy and you uh it can't actually make your life better. But this information wasn't meant to make your life better, it's to create a logical framework that it at least makes sense that it's possible that you could be free of the things that have held you back quickly and easily.

So let's just recap does it make sense? I'm asking you Andy and your audience does it at least make sense that at the root of what we're struggling with often is some sensation of fear? Does that make sense?

[Andy Goram] (51:15 - 51:17)

It does yeah.

[Daniel Packard] (51:17 - 51:24)

Yes and does it make logical sense that fear isn't originating in the mind but it's actually originating in the body does that at least make sense?

[Andy Goram] (51:24 - 51:25)

It does make sense now.

[Daniel Packard] (51:25 - 51:38)

and does it make logical sense that the system in the body that's creating this fear is something called the nervous system does that at least make sense that the nervous system is malfunctioning and making people nervous does that make sense?

[Andy Goram] (51:38 - 51:39)

Yeah it makes sense.

[Daniel Packard] (51:39 – 51:58)

And does it make sense that systems in the body could be malfunctioning in this case the nervous system and making you nervous? But then we know that systems can be repaired such that the nervous system would repair itself does that at least make sense?

[Andy Goram] (51:58 - 51:59)

I guess so, absolutely.

[Daniel Packard] (51:59 - 52:14)

And if we repair the system that's at the root cause of your symptoms does it make sense that we could heal the root cause which is the nervous system the fear would go away and then the symptoms of the fear would go away does that at least make logical sense?

[Andy Goram] (52:14 - 52:16)

I follow the logic, Daniel. I follow the logic.

[Daniel Packard] (52:16 - 55:50)

So if all of that at least makes enough sense that you are curious to see if this could work for you then the next logical step is for you to go to our website danielpackard.com and there you can download this free 90-minute training that Andy experienced. It’ss called from stuck to unstoppable. And you're going to see firsthand the thing that you're doing that's accidentally making your nervous system crank out all this nervousness that you didn't know made sense but trust me it's simple and you're going to wonder why nobody taught you this before. And then you're going to apply one of the techniques that we developed and you are going to feel measurably because you're going to measure your fear and anxiety levels and you're going to feel measurably calmer. Andy felt measurably calmer and I you're going to feel measurably calmer and so that's the next step is to experience this for yourself and you can do that by going again to danielpackard.com and downloading that free training "From stuck to unstoppable."

[Andy Goram] (53:04 - 53:23)

Beautiful, beautiful stuff Daniel and we're going to put all of that in the show notes I normally end the show with something I call sticky notes right which is like three tiny little summarized things you could stick on sticky notes and I'm thinking about all the things that we've talked about today if you had your choice of three little sticky notes

Daniel Packard’s Three Powerful Sticky Notes

[Daniel Packard] (53:23 - 53:45)

Daniel what would you whack on yours uh oh what a sticky yummy question also I do feel sticky notes could be the follow-up album from sticking from the inside out sticky notes uh so the question is out of everything I shared what would be three sticky notes?

[Andy Goram] (53:45 - 54:04)

Yeah I know I know what I would put on one of mine if I was to nick one of your sticky notes ("I want to hear yours first"). Well I would definitely go with the the mind is a symptom of the body because that's the thing that's been rattling around in my noggin since going through the training. You know if I was going to nick one of your sticky notes that's why I would stick on one of those. You've got two left what would you put on yours?

[Daniel Packard] (54:04 - 55:50)

So I guess what I would let people know is when you don't know what I just shared that the root cause is fear. Fear is coming from the body and this is solvable by just taking better care of it and it's all simple and it's all solvable most people don't know this because we innovated it and when you don't know it you're stuck in this hamster wheel of repetition of your patterns and then what happens is we start to blame ourselves and we start to think well the experts told me I need to do this and I did and it didn't work and we start to feel there's something wrong with us and that we're broken which just adds to the problems and I want to let everybody know uh this is not your fault the experts sent you to the wrong location did not give you a solution they weren't even trying to solve it so what I would put on the sticky note is it's not your fault slash there's nothing wrong with you second sticky note which is going to be a whole sheet of paper there is something wrong with the experts that you trusted you can be free of these patterns if you have an approach that simple addresses the root cause and would develop by engineers who want to solve things the final thing I would say is stop reading sticky notes and take action and go to get the free training don't just learn a bunch of stuff and go oh that was fast oh he's right it's the body oh how interesting useless that will not help you if you want to be free of this for yourself for your company for your children take action put the sticky notes down take action go to danielpackard.com and download the free training so that you can experience this for yourself, firsthand.

[Andy Goram] (55:50 - 57:03)

Brilliant! Daniel you are a force of nature my friend it's been amazing to get to know you in such a short space of time thank you so much for coming on and pouring all of your love passion and energy for this topic into this episode I can't say how much I appreciate it my friend it was truly my honour thank you for having me and thanks for appreciating what we're doing hey no problem my friend you take care okay everyone that was Daniel Packard and if you'd like to find out a bit more about any of the topics we've talked about today or to click on that link and go and take that training yourself then please check out the show notes so that concludes today's episode I hope you've enjoyed it found it interesting and heard something maybe that will help you become a stickier more successful business from the inside going forward if you have please like comment and subscribe it really helps I'm Andy Goram and you've been listening to the Sticky From The Inside Podcast, until next time thanks for listening

Andy Goram is the owner of Bizjuicer, an employee engagement and workplace culture consultancy that's on a mission to help people have more fulfilling work lives. He's also the host of the Sticky From The Inside Podcast, which talks to experts on these topics from around the world.