Holistic Purpose-Driven Leadership: Why Surrender Is the First Step to Becoming Your Best Self
- Andy Goram
- 1 hour ago
- 37 min read
A lot of leaders are taught, or encouraged to push harder, hold on tighter, and stay in control. But according to Dona Amelia, Harvard-trained leadership specialist and MD of EGN Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia, the real key to growth is something that sounds almost counterintuitive: surrender.
In this episode of Sticky From The Inside, Dona shares how her life — from a bamboo house in rural Indonesia to the global stage — shaped her belief that the best leaders are those who combine ambition with humility, and purpose with presence.
She calls it holistic purpose-driven leadership — a way of leading that starts with self-awareness and ends with service.
From Bamboo House to Boardroom
Dona’s story begins with simple roots and big lessons. Growing up in a small bamboo house with her parents and two siblings, she learned early that material comfort doesn’t define success — character does.
Her father’s words still echo:
"Everyone here is eating rice. No one is eating diamonds.”
They taught her to believe in her own worth, to work hard, and to respect others equally.
That grounding shaped the person she became — first as a performer, and later as a business leader helping others rediscover purpose and confidence in their own lives.
From Performance to Presence
Before moving into leadership and coaching, Dona built a career in entertainment as a singer, actress and presenter. Years in front of the camera taught her how energy and authenticity can connect people instantly.
When she transitioned into executive development, she realised those same qualities were vital for leadership. Leaders, she explains, are “on stage” every day — and their teams can tell when the performance is genuine.
In leadership, presence isn’t about perfection. It’s about being real enough for people to trust you.
Surrender: The First Step in Holistic Leadership
At the centre of Dona’s leadership philosophy is a five-step framework for becoming what she calls a holistic leader, and it all starts with surrender.
“The first step to be a holistic leader is to be able to surrender — to surrender our bad habits, to surrender to something that’s beyond us.”
Surrender, in Dona’s world, isn’t weakness or passivity. It’s an intentional act of release — letting go of ego, façade and habits that no longer serve you.
She gives the example of replacing unhelpful habits like scrolling social media with more nourishing ones, such as reading or self-reflection. Surrender creates space for better choices.
Once that space is open, four more steps follow:
2. Find Your Purpose. After surrendering what drains or distracts you, the next step is to reconnect with why you do what you do. Dona says many leaders forget their life purpose amid daily demands, but rediscovering it — and aligning it with professional purpose — brings energy and focus back into leadership.
3. Connect Deeply with Yourself. This step is about reflection and awareness. Too often, leaders lose sight of who they are and what they want. Dona encourages them to rebuild that connection because, as she says, “when you know yourself, you show up more authentically.”
4. Set Goals in All Areas of Life. Once you’ve realigned with your purpose, you can define what success really looks like — at work, at home and in relationships. Balanced goals create clarity and direction across every part of life.
5. Practise Discipline. The final step is about follow-through. Discipline turns purpose and intention into consistent action. For Dona, this isn’t about rigid control — it’s about steady commitment. When you apply discipline across those earlier steps, growth becomes sustainable.
As Dona explains, when you surrender what doesn’t serve you and commit to these steps, you create space for the best version of yourself to emerge — a leader who’s balanced, grounded and human.
Leadership as Service
Through her work with EGN, Dona supports senior leaders across Asia who often face pressure and isolation at the top. Her peer-learning groups create safe spaces for connection, trust and truth-telling.
She believes leadership is fundamentally about service — helping others shine. That, she says, is when the true magic happens: when leaders shift from managing outcomes to nurturing growth.
Dona’s Three Sticky Notes of Advice
At the end of the show, Dona left behind 3 simple bits of advice on what it takes to become a holistic, purpose-driven leader.
Remember to Have Dreams. Your circumstances don’t define your future. With hard work, smart work and determination — and maybe by following the D.O.N.A. framework — you can achieve them.
Be Authentic. You know yourself better than anyone. When you connect with yourself and your purpose, you can show up as your true self.
Always Love Giving. Even a smile counts. When you make giving a habit, life becomes richer and more abundant with love.
Holistic, purpose-driven leadership isn’t about control. It’s about courage. Having the courage to surrender what no longer serves you, reconnect with what matters, and lead others from a place of authenticity and love.
🎧 You can listen to the full episode of Sticky From The Inside with Dona Amelia via the player below, or read the full transcript that follows:
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Read The Full Transcript
[Andy Goram] (0:10 - 3:09)
Hello and welcome to Sticky from the Inside, the employee engagement podcast that looks at how to build stickier, competition smashing, consistently successful organisations from the inside out. I'm your host Andy Goram and I'm on a mission to help more businesses turn the lights on behind the eyes of their employees, light the fires within them and create tons more success for everyone. This podcast is for all those who believe that's something worth going after and would like a little help and guidance in achieving that.
Each episode we dive into the topics that can help create what I call stickier businesses, the sort of businesses where people thrive and love to work and where more customers stay with you and recommend you to others because they love what you do and why you do it. So if you want to take the tricky out of being sticky, listen on.
From Bamboo House to Boardroom: Meet Dona Amelia
Okay then, now imagine being born in a bamboo home in rural Indonesia, no electricity, no autumn comforts, but ahead of you a world full of possibility.
Now fast forward a few decades and that same young woman is now an international keynote speaker, an executive coach and a leadership trainer guiding senior leaders right the way across Asia and beyond on how to build purpose, presence and people-centred success. Well, that's the backstory to my guest today, Dona Amelia, MD and co-founder of EGN Singapore Indonesia and Malaysia, which is an exclusive peer network for senior executives. But before stepping into the world of business and leadership, Dona's life took some, let's say, fascinating turns.
She was a singer, an actress, a television presenter before realising her real calling lay in helping others step into their authentic leadership potential. And her work today blends performance, psychology and purpose shaped by both her Indonesian roots and global experience. Now as a Harvard-trained leadership specialist, a certified coach and an NLP practitioner, she brings a uniquely holistic approach that goes far beyond just KPIs and boardroom metrics.
For Dona, great leadership means matching your focus on performance with an equal care for your people's wellbeing and an interest in their home lives. So in this episode, we're going to explore how those early experiences shaped who Dona has become today, what leaders can learn from her Dona framework, and also how she helps senior executives stay human in high-pressure, high-stakes environments. Welcome to the show, Dona.
[Dona Amelia] (3:10 - 3:18)
Oh my god, I almost cried to hear your amazing introduction. Thank you so very much, Andy. I'm very, very honoured to be here.
[Andy Goram] (3:18 - 3:40)
Listen, I think I'm in the presence of greatness. I've known you a very short time, but what you have achieved and what you are still planning to achieve is incredible. Before I start to sort of dig into your history, your background, your childhood and all those amazing things that have led to where you are today, give me your view on it.
Give me your take. Who are you and what are you doing?
Early Lessons in Purpose, Resilience and Service
[Dona Amelia] (3:40 - 4:36)
Well, if I can mention about who I am, basically as simple as a girl from Indonesia who has a dream when she was a child to make her parents happy, bring them from the poverty to have a better life. And then life goes on. She has the opportunity to make other people happy through her singing, acting, DJing and so on.
And now she has another opportunity to help other leaders to be the best version of themselves. But in one conclusion, she is the person who loves making people happy, who wants to inspire everyone that whatever your background, you can always achieve your dreams with really smart work, dedication. And yeah, basically the blessing and the action of 200%.
That's I can say who I am.
[Andy Goram] (4:37 - 5:30)
Honestly, and all of that absolutely shines through in your personality. Like I said, I've known you for a very short time, but you certainly have an impact on people. You've certainly had an impact on me.
And I'm really looking forward to this conversation today. Now, I don't want to sound too crass or too Western or too much like an idiot, but I think you're going to bring a very interesting perspective to the podcast today because I think you bring a uniquely global perspective. And when I think of all the people I've spoken to, and we've spoken to people from all over the world on this podcast, but your particular background, I think is unique.
If you don't mind, I would love to understand a bit more about those early days. What did that background, that upbringing instill in you and inspire in you to think about how you're playing the world game today?
What Childhood Taught Her About Giving and Gratitude
[Dona Amelia] (5:31 - 13:31)
Good question. So let me tell you about my story. And I love sharing this story because it's really who I am and I love to be authentic and wherever I am in any podcast or any training or leadership that I've been through.
So I was indeed born in the bamboo house, no electricity, dirt floor. If you want to have a clean water, you need to get it from quite far away and so on. My dad just graduated from university, about to be a teacher.
My mom just graduated from senior high school. They fall in love. They have me, but they don't even have money to buy me milk.
So I'm the product of, I would say, organic product, which is rice because I was born in Indonesia. So people are eating rice back in Indonesia, right? So what I drink is the starchy liquid from rice when it's not yet almost done, basically.
So that's what I drink. But I guess now that's what the best probably, right? Because it's organic, this is full of vitamins, it's the vegetables and so on and so forth.
And then I saw, although back then it's a patriarchy like society where the man is really the one who works, but my mom helping my dad as well. So from selling fishbowl in the market, selling some cakes and all, and I still remember back then, you know, I put all the cakes in the tray and then I put on top of my head and then, you know, in the market, please take this, buy that. We were happy back then, right?
So I know from the early age that when my dad go to school to teach, right, my mom helping to sell something in the market, I helped to sell her. Probably now if I think back about this, what I get from this experience from the early age, probably about four or five years, six years, something like that, I'm used to serve people. As simple as serving in the market, right?
Try to also persuade, to get them interested. Hey, would you like to buy this? You know, with the smile and so on.
So that is one thing that probably helped me to interact with people, I would say. But also, most importantly, this is the thing that saved my purpose from the very, very early age. So seeing this kind of circumstances that happening to me, I know exactly what my purpose in life is to make my parents happy, bring them from the poverty to have a better life.
And I know that we need to work really hard for that. I need to work hard for that. And I'm willing to do that.
I have another story what shaped me who I am now. It's about sharing. So when I was probably about two years old to four years old or five years old, I went to my grandma and lived with her because she told me that, you know, my mom is busy in the market and then my dad is teaching and so on.
So I lived with eight of my uncles and aunties and all because my mom is the eldest one. So if I already took one piece of fish or something like that, I will never dare to take another one because I know it belongs to my uncles and aunties. And I still remember when my uncle or aunties come back from school and she or he has one candy and she gave it to me.
Wow. I feel so happy. Probably they don't even think that they were going to give it to me.
It's just one candy. Right. But to me, it means the world.
Wow. She really cares or he really cares. So from that early age, I know what's the meaning of sharing and not only sharing, but the sharing when you don't even being asked.
So if I give something to other people without they need to ask me, they will be very happy. That's what I felt when I was a kid because my uncle and auntie give me the candy without I asking. So I'm like, oh, they're very caring.
That's what the profound things about sharing and also about giving. So until now, I think my happiness lies when I can give. Now, another story about giving.
I think when I was about five years old, when I was still with my grandma, you know, as a kid, sometimes you want to have some chocolate and all. But because of our circumstances, having a chocolate is something luxury for me. We cannot afford it.
One day, my grandma showed me when I play with my friends and all, some friends have chocolate and I look at them. And then my grandma asked me, Bruno, please come here. Bruno, listen, if you see your friend eating chocolate or candy, please don't ask them.
Come back to grandma. If I have the money, I'll give it to you. But if I don't have, don't be sad.
Instead, you need to always give to other friends. And I'm like, what should I give? I have nothing.
I mean, I'm five years old, right? I have nothing. And then my grandma told me, and this is very profound.
She told me, you can always give your smile and your kindness, because regardless of whether you have money or not, you're always able to give your beautiful smile to everyone. And for five-year-old kids, right, to get that, wow, I feel like, you know, now I feel like a million dollars. I feel like, huh, okay, now I have something to give.
See? Something, you know? So then I'm like, I'm becoming a happy person.
I love to smile and all. Because, you know, this is very profound. When you have nothing, right, you all of a sudden have a power that only you have it and you are in control of it.
And that's super powerful to me. So until now, if I look back, this has saved me to who I am. I love making people happy.
As simple as giving a smile to others. You never know what's the impact your smile gives to other leaders or other people, right? So, yeah.
And then, basically, those childhood memories really gave me and, you know, becoming the foundation to who I am. Fast forward, when I was 15 years old, my dad found my talent in singing. So then I already tried to go to a competition on TV and so on.
But of course, you know, coming from humble background, going there by bus and so on, right? When I see TV stations, when I see all the other girls who compete, oh my God, I'm feeling myself like a tiny little worm, you know? Like, oh my God, they're so beautiful, so pretty, so talented, coming with nice car.
And I come from the bus and even the truck, back of the truck and so on. And then that is when the imposter syndrome, I'm not good enough, hits me. And again, I think the learning from my dad is very, very profound.
And this is teach me to who I am now as well. He told me like this, you know what, Dona? Everyone here eating rice, no one eating diamond or steel or wood or something like that.
You're not less than anyone else, he said. Believe in your talent and work hard and love people the same and respect people the same. And he told me, I know I cannot give you much, but I will always give you my support and my blessings to you.
And then he told me, this is very profound. He said, I know you will be very successful one day and I know you will be able to tell this story to help other people. So now, smile and do your best.
I know you can do it. Yeah, and I want number two, not number one, but at least this is the dancing competition. I got number two in this TV station.
But yeah, those kind of, you know, childhood memories really built to who I am now. Whenever I am really down or sad or something like that, I remember this. So those are the memories I would say from early age who shaped me to who I am now.
Yeah, I can tell you a thousand stories.
[Andy Goram] (13:31 - 15:04)
Oh, listen, I have absolutely no doubt that you can. I'm sure many people listening to this podcast will look back at their childhood when they're aged between three and six and probably not have the same work ethic that came out at that age. The same profound messages from grandparents that's clearly had an impact on who you are, what you do, how you show up for things.
But I love the phrase, everyone here eats rice, Dona. That already at a young age, being encouraged, being supported and being made to recognize your own self-worth. I mean, massively, massively important things.
That is a wonderful introduction to you. And I think a lovely setup for the rest of the conversation today. Let's take a little trip before we leave the whole entertainment piece behind, because I think that's absolutely brilliant.
So you came second. It's clearly the launch of other things to come in the whole entertainment world. You had a successful career in entertainment before you made this kind of transition, this leap into the business and leadership world.
When you were in that entertainment industry, what sort of lessons have you taken out of that that's set you up and influenced your attitude towards leadership and this network stuff that you've created, which we'll get on to later?
The Entertainment Years: Learning Performance and Presence
[Dona Amelia] (15:05 - 16:25)
I think another story of my dad. I love my dad so much. He is my biggest supporter.
I'm very blessed to have a parent that is very balanced, I would say. So my mom is very religious. She always wants me to pray five times a day, really pray to God for my success, my health and my happiness, while my dad also the same, but he's towards my career.
He always believed in me and pushing me towards, okay, you can do this, you know, you can do this. I know you will be successful. I know you want to do this and that.
So I still remember when I was, I think, about 16 or 17 years old during my senior high school. We're still living in those, what is it, like rural area in Indonesia. So one day, my dad heard that there is a filming next to our village, basically.
So I still remember, after coming back from school, in the pouring rain with a small old motorbike, in the pouring rain, the thunder and so on, he brought my picture. He wanted to meet the producer. And then he met the producer and then asked the producer, Mr. Producer, I have a daughter, her name is Dona. She can sing. Maybe she can also act. Would you like to meet her and maybe do the casting for her?
And he showed my picture to him. Guess what happened?
[Andy Goram] (16:26 - 16:26)
Tell me.
[Dona Amelia] (16:27 - 22:09)
Immediately he got kicked out and like, why are you here? Why are you bothering us? We are in the middle of the set, you know, go away, basically.
Wow, that is really, I mean, for a young teenage in a village, wow, that is like something. And then my dad told me, and that's the first lesson of never giving up. He said, it's okay, Dona, it's just not meant to be.
But we're not going to give up. Later on, you will have many more chances. This is just not for you.
So that is the first lesson for me from my dad. Because, you know, life is not easy. You will face many challenges, but how your attitude towards it.
My dad was always positive towards things. And that's why he's one of the most favorite teachers in his high school. So, yeah, that kind of mentality is really, really profound.
So now, after I graduate from senior high school and then go to the university, I would say one of the sacrifices that I made, I'm not really seeing this as a sacrifice, by the way, but probably if I see it now, I don't really have friends. I don't do teenage life, like, you know, going to movies, having a boyfriend and so on, having friends, going here and there. I don't have.
Why? Because since 15 years old, I only sing and then go back to home, be the best at school and helping my parents do all the basically domestic things at home, helping my mom. During university, also the same.
I only sing and then study, sing and study, sing and study, sing and study. Until in 2007, one producer found me and then we started making albums. And that's when I also graduated.
I mean, the next year I graduated from university and then I moved to Jakarta. After I finished from university, then I, you know, spread my wings, not only in singing, but yes, being an actress, TV presenter and so on. And I thought with all my struggle in the university and all, everything will be easier after university when I go to the capital city and all.
And actually it's not because I'm competing. Back then it's 250 million people in Indonesia and many girls wanted to be in my position. So if I do the casting, maybe 10 casting for one program, for example, if I get one, I'm already lucky enough, to be very honest.
And I don't have any background, sort of like, let's say acting school, singing school, whatever school, I only have my talent. Everything I have now, I learned on the spot, right? So those things are not easy, but again, they never give up.
What my dad told me in my teenage life is there for me. And I'm very clear in my purpose. And that's what kept me going.
Whatever happened in me in my life, I don't mind. I can work night and day, night and day. As long as my purpose is fulfilled, which is make my parents happy, bring them from the poverty to have a better life.
Because when I was a child also, I mean, people mock at my parents and I don't like that feeling. You know, people jealous of us, but then, oh, you are poor, you are this, you are that, you know, those kind of thing. And yeah, I don't like my parents to be treated in certain ways, basically.
So just one story during my university, all the money I have from singing, I still remember, I saved it all to give my parents, the first thing I bought is stove. Because back then in the small rural area, you still use what they call wood, wood to have the stove, wood and fire, something like that. So I bought stove.
I keep collecting the money until basically I bought them washing machine because I know I was the one who washed the clothes. But now it's no more donor. I'm now in other city.
To the point that I bought them a car, a house, bring them to Hajj, because for Muslim, going to Hajj is the dreams of all parents, basically. So I work hard so much to try to make my parents happy, bring them from the poverty to have a better life. Similarly, in my showbiz, so whatever I do, I know exactly what I want is that purpose.
So I think now I look back in my journey as a leader, I think as a human being or as a leader, knowing exactly your North Star, your purpose, your life purpose. And you can have many purposes in life. Yeah.
But for me, I'm very clear. Until then, my purpose is that bring them, making my parents happy, bring them from poverty to have a better life. And of course, they have many branches of this, including I will never let my parents down, always try to make them proud and so on and so forth.
Of course, with the cost of sometimes, now I know, I'm neglecting my own self in terms of some other teenage, they have fun or going to movie or whatever it is, holidays. I don't. However, because of that, because I travel across Indonesia and all for me to do singing, acting, TV presenting, I have a holiday at the same time.
So for me, every day is a holiday. Every day is a working day. So that's also the optic that I have now.
I enjoy and I love my work so much. So I don't feel like it's working. It's always a holiday.
It's always a working day.
Pivoting from Stage to Leadership Coaching
[Andy Goram] (22:09 - 22:59)
And that's just the attitude that I just feel from everything that you say and all the conversations that we've had today. But you made a big pivot. So you've had a successful entertainment career.
You're delivering on your purpose. You're helping your mum and dad. And you made this kind of pivot into the world of business and leadership.
Now, I'm guessing that some of those pieces of purpose and resilience must have played a big part in that, because I bet you that transition wasn't particularly easy or smooth the whole time, right? So were there any particular difficult moments in making that transition from the world of entertainment to the world of business and leadership that actually you fall back on these things of purpose and resilience, these lessons that you've learned earlier? Can you maybe share a story or two of that transition?
[Dona Amelia] (23:00 - 27:23)
Absolutely. So yes, after I sort of get everything that I want in the showbiz, right, every day on TV, I present one of the best infotainment that won eight-time Panasonic Nobel Award. So basically people see me on TV 11 a.m. every single night, but they don't know that the filming is a few hours before, which is 12 a.m. until 3 a.m. every night, a few hours before. And then, yeah, I met the love of my life, basically. But at the same time, I also always wanted to go abroad, because this is one of my dreams when I still have nothing. When I was 14, 15, I mean, in the rural area, I already have a dream.
One day I wanted to be a singer, actress, something like that, to be famous and to be able to see the world, basically. When you have nothing, I already have those dreams, yeah? So when I had the opportunity to move abroad, so I chose to move abroad to Vietnam.
So I thought, oh, I can still do singing, TV presenting and acting and all, and guess what? I failed, because I cannot speak the language. And everyone then also, I mean, not so much English is not well spoken in Vietnam either.
So again, I failed. I can still sing, by the way. So I became a DJ as well.
So I sing with big, big DJ, Afrojack, those kind of big, big names, basically. And I even have a song with Miss Universe Vietnam. So she was a DJ, I was a singer.
And then my coming husband told me, why don't you also be a DJ? That's why I also became a DJ. And yes, my coming husband back then, also already involved with EGN, Executive Global Network in Vietnam.
So I've been involved in that. So I fall in love with this company, because I see, wow, these are all top, top senior executives. And they come together, and then they discuss, and they're helping each other.
I feel like, wow, this is very humble things to see. And I like it. But then in 2018, we moved to Singapore and got married.
Now, I need to really focus in helping him with this EGN, Executive Global Network. And guess what? Coming from entertainment background and so on, I don't even know, I swear to God, how to use Excel, PPT, Word document, no idea.
And I thought, oh, you know, coming from showbiz entertainment and so on, oh, I thought in Singapore will be easy. Nobody knows you either. Like, okay, it's down and down and down.
Vulnerability at work & leaning into strengths.
But then I, this is what I do. I be vulnerable. I'm being vulnerable to my colleague.
I said to my colleague, I still remember, I said, I'm so sorry, I have no idea about these words, Excel, and so on and so forth. But I'm willing to learn. However, what I do, I lean to my strength.
My strength is with people. I know how to serve people. I know how to make people happy.
Right. And I know how to run the meeting or events and because my whole life is on TV. I did many live events and program and all.
I know exactly every second what you need to do to make things work and all. So I lean to my strength. So that's what I do in my company.
I started to becoming the head of member service to serve the members, meeting the members, and then becoming basically the host for the events and all. So I'm leaning to our, I mean, my strength. At the same time, I learn those things.
Yeah. But imagine if I do the other way around. I'm focusing on the thing that I don't know without leading to the one that I already know the strength.
I might not be who I am now, but I lean to what I'm good at. And then, yeah, until now, basically, I'm very grateful to serve all these leaders in our company because what Executive Global Network does is a professional peer network where we gather senior executives with another executive in the same environment where they can be themselves. They can be vulnerable.
They can talk about their challenges and all in the same environment and helping one another. So I would say it's not easy, the transition, I can tell you, but just lean to your strength and learn about the new skill at the same time. That's what I do.
[Andy Goram] (27:23 - 28:04)
Yeah. And these themes of service and purpose keep on coming through in the, in all of these wonderful stories and even the connection with the EGN stuff, the, the role of a leader can be isolating, can be lonely at times. So even the function I'm guessing of EGN from, from your perspective is about banishing some of that, connecting people, making them feel happier, making them feel better, allowing them a space, a safe space to be vulnerable, to share, to learn from each other.
So even though the transition would have been difficult and for some miles apart, you seem to have connected the two things again.
Combating executive loneliness (EGN) & safe peer spaces.
[Dona Amelia] (28:05 - 30:31)
Yeah. Thank God for that. Indeed, exactly.
You know, we at EGN really wanted to combat this executive loneliness and you rightly say, you know, doesn't matter how high they are. Actually, the higher you are because you are one person at the top. Most of them are lonely at the top.
They might have something that they cannot really express within their organization, although they have, let's say a thousand of employees and so on. But when you are in a certain level, right, you are lonely. You need to be able to convey your challenges and all within the similar seniority.
Why? Because maybe if you talk to your staff, they simply don't understand, or maybe it's the hierarchy or it's confidential and so on. So while you as the leaders, you take all the responsibility in your shoulders to make your team better, to gain, you know, reaching the KPI, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this, you know, like responsibilities in your shoulders.
But who you talk to then? You still need to have someone to talk to. If you have a coach, I'm a professional executive coach myself.
Wonderful. But it's one perspective that you talk, right? But if you join a professional peer network, like for example, EGN or any other network, especially at EGN, we give you a space, as you said, to be vulnerable because everyone understands they are all in the same boat.
And for us, everybody needs to understand the non-disclosure agreement and Chatham House will apply. It's very profound because for them, finally, they can take off all the facade, all the masks, all the things that, oh, I need to always look good. I need to always, you know, look the best and so on.
But in the reality, even leaders, they're also human. They need a sparring partner to discuss about their real challenge that they cannot discuss in their organization due to confidentiality hierarchy or whatever. Or this is simply too personal, for example, right?
So I can tell you many examples of how can leaders be vulnerable and be as open as possible and it helps them. For example, one of the meetings, we start with, hey, gratitude moment, what are you grateful for? One guy already with the company for quite some time, the GM for, I think agriculture company, he said, I go first.
Okay, what are you grateful for? He said, I'm very grateful because my CEO being kicked out this week. And then he said, just because he's European, he thinks he knows everything about Asia.
Good luck. He's gone. You think he can say that in his organization?
[Andy Goram] (30:32 - 30:46)
No. I suspect there are some people who can relax into this environment quicker than others. It will take a while for some people to sort of like maybe take that facade down, maybe feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable.
[Dona Amelia] (30:47 - 33:03)
Yes, absolutely. Especially, I mean, for European, maybe this is easier for them, right? To be themselves and all.
But in Asia, sometimes it's not easy until and unless they trust this group or this organization that, you know, I can be vulnerable, then they can be vulnerable. So in every of the EGN meeting, we have four hours meeting every second month, right? And then in that four hours, the first half an hour is coffee networking.
And then the next two hours is really to go deep about member challenges that we call it. So in the member challenge session, people will go into the small group discussion and then they can discuss about their real current challenge goals or aspiration within that small group. Let's say if three of us or four of us, I go first and then I say, oh, guys, this is my challenge, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then these three people say that, oh, I've been there, Dona, this is what I do, blah, blah, blah. So I get the do and don'ts immediately. You see, I can learn or somebody can tell me, hey, Dona, you are about to make a mistake, about to, you know, spend a lot of money and all.
I suggest you not go there. Why? Because this is what I do before and this is what my mistake.
You're about to do the same. Boom, I got the problem solved. That can change the trajectory of my career or my business, for example.
However, in the bigger scenario, we call it advisory board or hot seat. We have also one person who share his or her challenge in front of everybody in the whole room. It's the same.
I share my challenge, everyone will question me, right, asking me clarification question and then discuss together with me based on their vast experience what should be the best solution for me. Now, imagine if we have 10, 14, 15 or 20 leaders coming from diverse background, diverse industry, ego check in the door. Everyone is senior executive.
They are in the same boat, just wanted to make each other better and helping one another, giving me insight. I will be blown away because maybe I got insight that I don't think about it because they see it from different lenses, you see. That's what's the best about EGN.
People can really, really discuss about their challenges and then get the ROI to really get the best solution to their problem. And remember, only need one idea or one solution that might change the whole trajectory of my career or my business and so on and so forth. And it's in the safe environment.
And that's what we do at EGN.
[Andy Goram] (33:03 - 34:28)
I think that is what I think is really important. The leadership part at the very top can definitely feel like an isolating, lonely place, I am sure. And having facility to have even just a sounding board of people who've been there before or people who empathize with the stuff or like your story said, giving someone an environment where they can really let loose because they can't do that within their organization, really, really important.
But I also know because there's a couple of things I do want to try and cover off with you because I've mentioned a couple of things in the intro that I'm really keen we get to. One is your framework on leadership, right? So you have your own kind of theory on how that leadership through and you've got this framework that helps lay that out.
And then I think that's going to lead us nicely into your views on, I use the term holistic leadership. I know you've used that before. And really where that focus needs to be to be really effective in this modern global world that we live in.
So do me a favor, Dona. Let's look at the D.O.N.A framework for leadership. What is that?
Take us through the stages and help us connect to that.
The D.O.N.A. Framework (Dreams, Opportunity, Never give up, Action).
[Dona Amelia] (34:29 - 39:17)
Absolutely. So D.O.N.A framework is actually the framework that I use all my life without I noticing it. And now I teach many, many young leaders and people about this framework as well.
So D stands for dreams. O stands for opportunity. N is never give up.
A is action. So whenever I do something or when I'm down and all, I will always see where I am in that stages. Right.
So the dream is that we need to have a dream. And I start this when I was have nothing. Right.
We can always have our dreams, dreams, meaning the vision, the goal that we want to achieve something. So if you want something, you need to start with that. And regardless, you have money or not, regardless your background and situation, you can always have your dreams.
And that's what I have when I was a child. I have nothing but only the dreams, dreams to make my parents happy, dreams to travel the world, dreams to be an actress, a singer and all those. That's what I have now.
Dream can stay a dream until you try to find the opportunity to get it. So that's why O stands for opportunity. Now, what I mean by finding the opportunity is, yeah, don't just having a dream and go back to sleep.
Do something about it. Right. Because dream can always a dream.
Vision can always be a vision without you doing something about it. Find the opportunity to achieve your dreams. If you cannot find the opportunity, create it yourself.
So you can always create some SMARTS goal so then you can understand, OK, in order to achieve my dreams, this is the SMARTS goal for it. And then create the action plan for your SMARTS goal. Right.
So, you know how to find this opportunity and go to the next step, which is never give up along the way in finding the opportunity to reach your dreams. Oh, my God, it's going to be a lot of turbulence whatsoever. Yeah.
As mentioned before, if I cast 10, if I got one, it's already good enough. But don't give up. Never give up to find this opportunity.
Don't give up to find the opportunity to reach your dreams. Don't give up. Now, the next step is action.
Once you find the opportunity to reach your dreams, your action needs to be 200%. My 200%, it's very simple. If you do so-so, I cannot be who I am now, because as I mentioned, I only have my talent and the blessing from God and also my parents who love me.
The action 200%, for me, I have another methodology, which is 4TE. I start with pray and then prepare and then practice and then perform and then evaluate. Those are the things that I always do if I want to success and what I mean with 200%.
If I didn't do any of the steps, meaning I'm missing something, meaning I didn't do my best, meaning I didn't do the 200%. So, I will start with pray to God. Right.
You can pray, you can meditate, whatever it is that makes you center yourself and focus. That's what I mean with pray. And then I will prepare from A to Z.
Prepare everything. Even now in my career, let's say I will meet you, I will prepare to know you. What if something happens?
I will prepare everything to the point that I prepare the scenario A, B, C, D, E. So, for example, if I'm in the stage, what if all of a sudden power cut? Mic not on?
Whatever this could be, what should I do? I already planned during the preparation. And then, of course, the next is practice.
Practice, practice, practice, practice. Practice makes progression because perfection is an illusion, I think. But when you practice in your brain, in your activities, whatever it is, you do practice.
And then on the day itself, you perform your best. But normally, if you do pray and then prepare well and then practice all the time, normally the performance will be good. However, there is a thing beyond our control, right?
Our job is to build 4P. Now, E coming in, the evaluation. The evaluation, you need to come from the state of being grateful because you do all the 4 and then being accepted in the acceptance mode.
Why? Because we accept something beyond our control, even though you already do your best. So that is the action 200% I mean, and I do.
And those D-O-N-A framework, the one that brought me to who I am now, everything I do and have now, it's because of those framework. So I start with the dreams and then I found the opportunity and I don't give up. And then I do the action 200% by implementing the 4PE methodology.
So that's the framework.
[Andy Goram] (39:18 - 40:01)
That's a lovely personalized approach to achievement and performing that I think will resonate with a lot of people. And I'm sure that is some kind of guide or watch for what you mean when you talk about holistic leadership today. I think I said in the intro, this combination of look, being all over your metrics and your business metrics, right?
As a leader, you have to know those things, but there's the authentic interest in the people that are in your care, in your business. Explain to me your position on holistic leadership and why you think it's so important that we definitely focus on this stuff today?
What holistic purpose-driven leadership looks like in practice
[Dona Amelia] (40:02 - 41:16)
I think, especially for me, coming from a humble background, I know how it is to be, you know, in the lower position or being poor and whatnot, or being in a disadvantage situation, for example. I'm full of love and so on. And I know when people love me as a human being, I'm very happy.
So again, it's very simple. Other people also will feel the same. Remember the story of my auntie and uncle bringing me candy?
Maybe they don't even mean it. They just somehow they have candy. But to me, it means the world.
So when we do that to our staff, when we show them that we care about them as a human being, we appreciate them. Not only for them as, you know, the person who needs to reach KPI, KPI, KPI, but if we care about them as themselves, how happy they are, mentally happy, physically happy, and, you know, psychologically happy. Guess what?
Combined with them reaching the KPI, that is the holistic approach of it. If you only care about KPI, KPI, KPI, it's they, in themselves, not healthy, not happy, maybe having some difficulties at home, but they cannot be vulnerable. You cannot help.
Do you think they will perform the best? No.
[Andy Goram] (41:17 - 41:57)
I think if someone doesn't feel like you care for them, why should they care about you or what the business does, right? It's a quid pro quo. It's a two-way street for sure.
And do you think this is something that is becoming more accepted, more understood in leadership? And particularly culturally, has this always been there? Because, you know, in the last few decades in the Western business world, you know, there's a lot more talk about people, although engagement stats, retention stats haven't really changed very much.
But in the Eastern world, has it been the same trajectory? Is it more important? Is it a new thing?
Balancing people care and KPIs: why performance follows wellbeing
[Dona Amelia] (41:58 - 46:27)
So I guess me and my husband travel the world to really talk about this holistic leadership concept. So we want leaders to understand that if they can be holistic leaders, they can also serve other people or their staff or their employees even better. So for us, we have this, what is it, structure, like the steps to be holistic leaders, right?
And everyone can also follow this. So the first step to be a holistic leaders is to be able to surrender, to surrender our bad habits, to surrender on something that's beyond us. Because sometimes, again, we as a leader, you know, have a lot of egos, a lot of baggage, right?
A lot of facade and all. The moment you can accept that, hey, maybe this is not serving me anymore. Simply let's say I have those bad habits that are no longer serving me anymore.
As simple as, let's say, binge-watching Netflix or scrolling on social media or Instagram and all, and try to change it to, let's say, reading books or something like that. So the surrender part is very important. That's the first step.
The next step, once you're surrendering bad habits, to open up the space for you to have and having a better habit and so on. The next thing that you need to find is purpose. You need to find your life purpose to be able to connect with your company purpose or professional purpose and all.
And the next step also, you need to connect deeply with yourself. Because sometimes we forget about connecting with ourselves, right? We don't know who we are, what we really want.
Yeah, I mentioned also to you, you know what, when I spoke in front of 100 or 1,000, when I asked, do you know your life purpose? Maybe, maximum 10, not even that. Normally, they don't even know their life purpose.
Because, you know, they're busy with their lives and all and so on, right? They forgot about themselves. That's why we really need them to connect with themselves even more.
Because the moment you connect with yourself, you know your life purpose, then you can connect these purposes, because you can have many purposes, to what you do at work. And that's when you can find the synergy. That's when you can thrive even more.
Because maybe your life purpose and the things that you do now is completely the opposite. You're just doing it for the sake of money, for example. But what if you can do something that also aligns with your purpose?
Then you will thrive even more, right? So maybe what you do now is not really aligned with what you deeply, you, it's really not you. You do it for making other people happy, pleasing people, or simply to get money and so on.
So after you connect with yourself, right, and also already find your purpose and already surrendered things, the next thing is, yes, you need to have the goals in all aspect area of your life. Because, and then you know what to do and put the action plan and so on, regardless if it is for life or for professional. Now after that, the last part of being holistic leaders is discipline.
You need to be disciplined in achieving your goals. So imagine if you already surrendered bad things, you already find your life purpose, right? And then you have a deeper connection with yourself, with your family, with your loved one, with your client, with your staff, and then you have the goals for your business and life and be disciplined to achieve this, guess what?
You will be the best version of yourself. And that's why for us, for me and my husband, we really wanted to spread this world about this, being holistic leaders, to be able to be the best version of themselves so that they can also lead better. And this methodology is not only for leaders, for anyone who wanted to be the best, better version of yourself or the best version of themselves.
This is the methodology, this is the steps. So to me, I think in Asia, not yet all leaders really care to the staff this much, holistically like this, right? Because I think, and I'm not blaming anyone, right?
Of course, some companies are still thinking KPI is much more important. But for us, I think for me, the more you can balance it or slightly more towards caring the person itself, right? The KPI will come automatically.
So that's my thinking.
[Andy Goram] (46:28 - 47:40)
Love it. Absolutely love it. I think today you have managed skillfully to really bring the whole idea of purpose as a driving force, no matter what your circumstances, no matter what you're faced with, no matter what troubles you have or opportunities that are open to you, or you have to find, the power of having that kind of anchor point, the North Star, as you call it, whatever metaphor we want to put alongside it.
What you've done, I think, beautifully is bring that to life through all those stories today. I have one more favour to ask you, Dona, before we run completely out of time. We've come to the part in the show I call sticky notes.
Now, this is just trying to sort of give and leave the listeners with three little bits of advice that we could stick on a sticky note around our screens, just to remind us about the things that are important when we are really trying to be the best version of ourselves, when we're really trying to sort of like, you know, connect like you've talked about, about that, to that holistic leadership. If I was to push you just for three little tiny bits of advice, what would you leave us today with?
Dona Amelia’s Sticky Notes of Wisdom
[Dona Amelia] (47:42 - 49:20)
I think number one will be, remember to have dreams and remember that whatever circumstances or background or things that are happening to you now did not determine your future. You can always achieve any of your dreams, regardless of your circumstances now, with hard work, smart work, and also the determination. Maybe you can follow the D.O.N.A framework, basically. Yeah, that is one. Second, be authentic. It's always important to be you, and you will know yourself better than anyone else, meaning that if you can connect with yourself, if you can find your purpose in life, then you can be authentic.
So, regardless of how hard it is for us to find the purpose or the connection to ourselves, I would recommend everyone to try to find it. Because then, when you know your life purpose, when you can connect with yourself, you can show up authentically, and nothing better than being authentic. The last one, I don't know, I think this is my personal favorite.
Always love giving. Always find happiness in giving. As small as giving a smile to others.
If you can make that a habit of always wanting to give, as small as giving a smile, I think your life will be much happier and abundant with love. And guess what? The more you give, the more you get as well.
Those are the three things.
[Andy Goram] (49:20 - 49:47)
I love those, and what a beautiful, again, more lovely neatness coming back to the happiness. I think you can always give somebody your smile or kindness quote from your mum at the beginning of the show today, will live with me for a long time. That's wonderful.
What a lovely way to bring that all together. Dona, before I let you go, where can people find out more about you, more about EGN, more about everything?
[Dona Amelia] (49:48 - 50:19)
Sure. Thank you so much for having me. Everyone can always find me on LinkedIn, Dona Amelia, D-O-N-A, space A-M-E-L-I-A.
And you can also find me on Instagram at Miss Dona Amelia. Similarly to Facebook at Miss Dona Amelia. And then if you want to know more about EGN, you can go to EGNpeernetwork.com, EGNpeernetwork.com, E-G-N, E-G-N, E-G-Npeernetwork.com.
[Andy Goram] (50:19 - 50:37)
I will put all of the links beautifully in the show notes, Dona. Don't you worry about that. Listen, thank you so much for giving up your time today.
I know you're going to rush off to the market now and have some nice fun on a Friday night. Thank you so much for doing this. Really, really appreciate it.
I feel a better person having met you and please take care.
[Dona Amelia] (50:38 - 50:42)
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you everyone for listening. Appreciate it.
Thank you. Bye-bye.
[Andy Goram] (50:42 - 51:23)
Okay. Bye-bye. Well, everyone, that was Dona Amelia.
And if you'd like to find out anything else about her or any of the things we've talked about in today's episode, please check out the show notes. So that concludes today's episode. I hope you've enjoyed it, found it interesting and heard something maybe that will help you become a stickier, more successful business from the inside going forward.
If you have, please like, comment and subscribe. It really helps. I'm Andy Goram and you've been listening to the Sticky from the Inside podcast.
Until next time, thanks for listening.
Andy Goram is the owner of Bizjuicer, an employee engagement and workplace culture consultancy that's on a mission to help people have more fulfilling work lives. He's also the host of the Sticky From The Inside Podcast, which talks to experts on these topics from around the world.